http://www.bushrevealed.com/

__________________
Adam Leavelle
Westminster OPC
Roaring Spring Pa.

http://www.myspace.com/aleavelle
"Speak wisdom to a fool and he'll think you have no sense at all"

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Sadly Adam, this is true........Bush has turned out to be a universalist (imo). His stand on abortions is not truly a stand at all.

__________________
Scott Bushey
Husband to Tina, father to Nicole, Danielle and Zoe
Member First Presbyterian Church of Margate PCA

I just can't believe that I didn't know everything on that page! I have been a hard core conservative Republican for YEARS and this has me wanting to align myself with the Constitutional Party now!

http://www.peroutka2004.com/index.php

This man truly takes a stand for Holiness!

George W. Bush has praised Islam as a great religion, celebrated Ramadan in the White House, and stated that Christians and Muslims worship the same God/god. He has appointed open sodomites to high office, including sodomite Michael Guest as the U.S. Ambassador to Romania. Bush supports sodomite civil unions. He believes there should be so-called "exceptions" to a ban on decriminalized child-murder (i.e., abortion), but won't fight even for that much of a ban because he doesn't believe the country and Congress is ready to ban child-murder (how's that for "reckoning without God" ?). Bush is a hypocrite when he and his cabinet officials call for cutting off the supply of dollars to foreign terrorist organizations like al-Queda, but nevertheless continues to fund with U.S. taxpayer dollars, America's largest abortion domestic terror organization, Planned Parenthood (Murder, Inc.), which slaughters over 200,000 unborn American children per year, by surgical abortion alone; and yet, receives approximately $100 million per year through the HHS Appropriations bill (via Title X and Medicaid) which George W. Bush signs, and the Republican-majority US House and the Republican-majority US Senate vote to approve !!

:no:

[img:46e74599ab]http://www.peroutka2004.com/images/peroutka2004_masthead_400.jpg[/img:46e74599ab]

[Edited on 6/2/2004 by houseparent]

truly disappointing and eye-opening....namely the parts about abortion.

I knew of his weak stance on Islam, but dismissed it as simply ignorant of the religion.....I heard comments that could be seen as universalist from him, but also heard things like "Salvation is impossible outside of Christ." I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on these issues as a misinformed, young, immature believer.

But most disgustingly, namely because his perverse stance is so clear now...is the part on abortion. He got my vote (and was going to get my vote this fall), because I thought he was at least resolved to end Murder, Inc. (Planned Parenthood). Unfortunately, his resolve there is apparently weakened as well.

Now, the question comes up, where does my vote go?

there is no doubt that right now, he is the most likely candidate to be able to actually do something about abortion....and given the chance, I think he would (even if still allowing for certain murderous exceptions....it's still many lives saved). If he is in Christ, it's by the skin of his teeth. I have many disagreements with the man....but in comparison to anyone else with a chance at winning in the fall, he is a genuine saint!

I do not feel comfortable or confident casting my vote for G-Dub, but I find it very hard not to do what I can (namely voting for him) to end the atrocities of abortion.

by the way, I doubt any believers in here doubt the horrific nature of abortion.....but the way I see it, America is about 7 times worse than Nazi Germany on this issue....40 MILLION government-sanctioned murders in the last 30 years.

OH Precious Lord, save our people and glorify yourself! What loathsome sinners we are

[Edited on 6-2-2004 by smhbbag]

__________________
Jeremy Gage
First Baptist Church
Durham, NC

"No heart can conceive that treasury of mercies which lies in this one privilege, in having liberty and ability to approach unto God at all times, according to his mind and will." - John Owen

Yeah, it just goes to show all the more that there's an increasingly blurred line between the two major parties. Anymore, no candidate from either major party ever has much going for them.

Chris

__________________
Chris


A passion to know and reflect Christ by living and demonstrating the truth and richness of the historic Reformed faith

Visit My Website Here

Christopher Blum
Member of Trinity Presbyterian Church of Northern Kentucky (PCA) in Burlington, KY

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Adam,
Thanks for the link. I've never heard of him before. Will his name be on the ballot, or will it require a write-in vote?

Do you agree with his foreign policy? He quoted something that Adams said about how we basically need to look out for ourselves? I wonder if Adams' view would have been any different if he had to deal with attacks like 911? Maybe not.

Bob

[Edited on 6-2-2004 by blhowes]

__________________
Bob Howes
Framingham, MA

A reoccurring thought:

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Yet how can anyone deny the [b:733a861e3d]fact[/b:733a861e3d] that if many Christians vote for the Constitution Party rather than for President Bush, they are handing the presidency to John Kerry? What rights will the unborn have if he is elected and allowed to appoint judges & justices?

It is a difficult decision that faces us.

Grace,
Dwayne

__________________
Dwayne S. Watts, Pastor
Riverside Advent Christian Church
Fort Worth, Texas

[quote:860463e30e]What rights will the unborn have if he is elected and allowed to appoint judges & justices?[/quote:860463e30e]

The same rights as the unborn have now. None. Look at what is happening in San Fran as we speak. A federal judge has ruled that the PBA Ban is unconstitutional and infringes on a woman's right (RIGHT????) to choice.

I firmly and fully believe that it is our duty as Christians to vote according to our faith and leave the outcome of the election to our sovereign God.

__________________
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." John Owen, III:433

Suzanne
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA
Travelers Rest, South Carolina

"I firmly and fully believe that it is our duty as Christians to vote according to our faith and leave the outcome of the election to our sovereign God."

Amen.

"Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief."

Grace,
Dwayne

Every vote involves a compromise of principles.

Is the Constitution party advocating an amendment to the Constitution acknowledging the Lord Almighty? Is it prepared to expell all Muslims? Is it prepared to use the magistrate's power to enforce Sabbath laws? Will it enforce the 1st commandment? The 2nd? Does it acknowledge and confess that Biblical theology is Reformed theology?

If we're going to vote based on Biblical principles and not care about the result, let's make sure that we go the whole way.

__________________
Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

[b:57a6e8f3ff]Dwayne wrote:[/b:57a6e8f3ff]
Yet how can anyone deny the fact that if many Christians vote for the Constitution Party rather than for President Bush, they are handing the presidency to John Kerry?

Maybe consciences can be appeased by the idea that votes given to John Kerry by Christians voting for the Constitution Party may be offset by the votes given to Bush by those who vote for Ralph Nader.

Bob

A compromise of principles?

I didn't say that I didn't care about the result, but as a Christian I am not responsible for the outcome of an election. That is Christ's domain. It is my duty to do what is right before God, and for the life of me I cannot see how any Christian can argue that doing right before God is voting for either major party given their overt or covert platform.

Voting for a candidate that has shown themselves to be an enemy of God by their actions, in my opinion, makes [i:4b458f0c4f]me[/i:4b458f0c4f] complicit in their sin.

[quote:1adb706dd4][i:1adb706dd4]Originally posted by Newly Reformed[/i:1adb706dd4]
A compromise of principles?

I didn't say that I didn't care about the result, but as a Christian I am not responsible for the outcome of an election. That is Christ's domain. It is my duty to do what is right before God, and for the life of me I cannot see how any Christian can argue that doing right before God is voting for either major party given their overt or covert platform.

Voting for a candidate that has shown themselves to be an enemy of God by their actions, in my opinion, makes [i:1adb706dd4]me[/i:1adb706dd4] complicit in their sin. [/quote:1adb706dd4]

But my point Suzanne, is how do you describe an enemy of God in this context? One who tolerates Muslims is an enemy of God in some sense. Muslims worship the devil. Does the Bible encourage that at all? So if we are talking about [b:1adb706dd4]principles[/b:1adb706dd4], then a candidate who tolerates idolatry is no more worthy of support than one whon says kind words about idolaters.

How can we on [b:1adb706dd4]principle[/b:1adb706dd4] (not on pragmatics) say that the 6th commandment is more important than the 4th? God doesn't. You have to be careful when you start thinking that God requires us to vote for one man over another solely on principle. In that vein, I can understand how you could not vote for Bush, but to vote for the Constitution party is hypocrisy.

Elder Greco!

Grace,
Dwayne

[quote:3fdc35e418]In that vein, I can understand how you could not vote for Bush, but to vote for the Constitution party is hypocrisy.[/quote:3fdc35e418]

I respectfully submit that I have not said anywhere that I am voting Constitution party. I have merely said that I cannot and will not vote for Bush.

I don't know if his name will be on the balet or not, I ordered materials from them and I will keep you all updated!

I am pretty excited about it.

In the mean time check out this article:

http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=104

[quote:cb8423d6c3][i:cb8423d6c3]Originally posted by Newly Reformed[/i:cb8423d6c3]
[quote:cb8423d6c3]In that vein, I can understand how you could not vote for Bush, but to vote for the Constitution party is hypocrisy.[/quote:cb8423d6c3]

I respectfully submit that I have not said anywhere that I am voting Constitution party. I have merely said that I cannot and will not vote for Bush. [/quote:cb8423d6c3]

I'm sorry Suzanne. I should not have implied that. I was simply following what has been said by others on a dozen or so Bush threads here. I did not have you specifically in mind, except that your language on principle was helpful.

Forgive me for putting words in your mouth.

:no:

Well, now I read that this party will grant no special privledge to Israel and they would not provide aid to them either.

Sickening!

I can't vote for a party that will ignore Israel.:thumbdown:

Adam,
Why is Israel to be treated specially?

[quote:f8dc986cc9][i:f8dc986cc9]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:f8dc986cc9]
:no:

Well, now I read that this party will grant no special privledge to Israel and they would not provide aid to them either.

Sickening!

I can't vote for a party that will ignore Israel.:thumbdown: [/quote:f8dc986cc9]

I would vote for a party that would withdraw all foreign aid. My tax money should not be going overseas to the tune of $$$billions per year.

The modern state of Israel is a political entity, pure and simple. It has no particular spiritual significance, at least none revealed in the Word of God. In fact it holds policies and takes actions which dishonor God.

It should have no special privileges.

__________________
Tom Albrecht
Member, Covenant URCNA, New Holland, PA.

"I'm not a famous man. I'm just a simple country doctor with horse sense."

[quote:e5c06fd3a1][i:e5c06fd3a1]Originally posted by Scott Bushey[/i:e5c06fd3a1]
Adam,
Why is Israel to be treated specially? [/quote:e5c06fd3a1]

I also wonder why?

As I understand the Scripture, the promise of God regarding the inheritance of the land was made to [b:e5c06fd3a1]all[/b:e5c06fd3a1] the descendants of Abraham; sons of Ishmael as well as Isaac.


tcalbrecht!!!

Grace,
Dwayne

So because of that we should allow Israel to stand alone in the midst of that region?

[quote:d6da07889d][i:d6da07889d]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:d6da07889d]
So because of that we should allow Israel to stand alone in the midst of that region? [/quote:d6da07889d]

No, not necessarily, but I think a lot of Christians' view of foreign policy in regard to Israel is more dispensationally driven than anything else.

Just my :wr50:

Grace,
Dwayne

[quote:2171199e8e][i:2171199e8e]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:2171199e8e]
So because of that we should allow Israel to stand alone in the midst of that region? [/quote:2171199e8e]

Yes, unless we're prepared to give aid and support to every other small country in the world that experiences strife as well. But surely no one would advocate that, because, simply put, America isn't the world's police department. In my opinion, the best foreign policy is one of strong defense, free trade, and non-intervention. But even if you disagree with the "non-intervention" part, Israel is no more entitled to our helpful intervention than is any other small country.

In Christ,

Chris

So the ONLY democracy in the midst of it's non-democratic enemies (who also happen to be our enemies for the most part) does not deserve aid?

And this is a Christian ideal?

Are we to be so afraid of dispensationalism that we take this stance?

What other small countries sit in a position even close to Israels' position?

I'm with Adam here. The history of the Netherlands is significant for me. During WWII many Dutch helped out the Jewish people, not just because they were oppressed, not just because they were singled out, but because they were dingled out for oppression because of what they stood for. They wer yet the race of God's OT people, and did not deserve that kind of treatment at the hands of man. Even if it was God's judgment, it was our Christian duty at the same time to aid. So they do hold some spiritual significance for us.

Even on the pragmatic side, the mid-east is a strategic spot, economically and militarily; and America has no choice but to have a vested interest in things there. It is her responsibility to the world to do so. Clearly not for Dispensational reasons.

I also don't like the idea of cutting off all foreign aid. A rich country must be benevolent with it wealth, or risk losing it providentially.

But I'm Canadian. It's not like we don't live in a glass house.

__________________
JohnV :detective:

John Vandervliet
Ontario, Canada
member of: Canadian Reformed Church
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are" C.S Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism