Hello all. This is my first post on the PB and Im very excited to be a member. I would love some advice on my current situation....

My girlfriend and I strongly desire to marry. We have been together for about two years. Have just joined a new church that we both really love (its our first OPC church either of us have every been a part of AND ITS GREAT!). She is just out of college and is starting her new job as a 6th grade teacher for a private Christian school. I still have several years of school before I recieve my undergrad degree and than I desire to go to seminary. Im going to school full time and working around 30-35 hours a week.

My parents who are non-Christians really like her. Her parents do not live together but both profess Christ. Her dad really likes me but her mom is no fan. My parents and her dad think we would be to young and poor to marry now but enjoy the idea of us together at some point.

I just would love some advice from fellow Christians who are wiser than myself. We have looked at a budget together and think we would be able to do just fine. I dont know why we should let a smaller income force us to wait to marry when we both truly believe it would bring glory to God for us to marry. We know and trust that the Lord will take care of His children but also know we should seek advice and wisdom from others.

Also our pastor is about to work through a marriage book He recommends with us so he is also working with us to see what is best...

~Thanks for any advice you may give~

__________________
David Franks
Indianapolis,IN
Christ Covenant OPC
www.indyopc.org

Well, I probably don't count as older or wiser, but my advice in a nutshell:

1) Have a long, open talk with her dad.
2) Hope for his approval.
3) Get married.

You are not too poor. Unless there is some unmentioned, insurmountable debt that you owe, finances are not an issue.

Of course, there are more scriptural criteria, that none of us will be capable of judging at this point: your maturity, responsibility, selflessness toward her, diligence at work/school, the strength of your commitment to cherishing her, etc. And likewise her attitudes of submission, respect, and obedience toward you - along with all those other parts of personal character.

But, if those are in place, and I think it is fair to assume, from your post, that you have considered all of these things, then I believe you are approaching the point where you are in sin not to marry her.

You've been dating for 2 years, and are likely 'burning.' If not, there is a problem.

You are at a point where a breakup would feel like divorce, you struggle with strong mutual sexual desire, and are both of the personal character and means to be married. The Lord never intended a relationship like that to exist.

So, - be humble, patient, and respectful toward her father's wishes, and further explain to him your vision for his daughter with you. But move this thing forward - and faster is better.

I met my wife about 2 years ago. And I honestly thought we may have waited too long to get married.

__________________
Jeremy Gage
First Baptist Church
Durham, NC

"No heart can conceive that treasury of mercies which lies in this one privilege, in having liberty and ability to approach unto God at all times, according to his mind and will." - John Owen

Welcome to the board! Great to have you.

My wife and I married at 21 years of age (she is a few months older which I tend to remind her of when jesting. I remember friends and family giving all the financial reasons, the maturity reasons, etc, etc. about why we shouldn't be married...we were broke and I was recently converted. In other words, all the magazines in the checkout line at your local supermarket would have called us fools, that we needed to explore options further and wait until we had achieved all we wanted in life. Thanks to the Biblical counsel of a pastor, we got married. His reasons?

1. Don't try to deal with the inevitable sexual temptation that will happen outside of marriage.

2. Finances and maturity are all under the soveriengty of God. Using them as reasons not to get married is like saying I need to attend a missions conference or seminary before sharing Christ with someone.

If you are both members in good standing of a congregation that is faithful in its proclamation of the Word and administration of the sacraments / church discipline, then my advice is to ask for her hand. I think church membership is important because it is a good indication that you are serious about your commitment to the Church, which is also a good sign of your commitment to marriage.

It's an exciting time for you brother! Blessings!

__________________
Joel Batts
Christ Presbyterian Church (PCA) - Memphis, TN

"Why wasn't God watching? Why wasn't God listening? Why wasn't God there for Georgia Lee?"
- Tom Waits
But you, O God, do see trouble and grief;you consider it to take it in hand. The victim commits himself to you; you are the helper of the fatherless. - Psalm 10:14

My grandparents were so poor they did't know the depression happened went they went through it. They had eight children and how they fed them is a miracle from God. If grandad would have lived one more month they would have been married 70 years. I really believe we put to much emphasis on money in our society and not enough on family.

__________________
1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

Are you going to be poor? Yes. Too poor? No. Do a budget and see where you come up. Listen to a lot of Dave Ramsey.

The best exercise to do at the moment is a good budget. That will humble and challenge you, then give you hope (I wonder if the Budget is kind of like the "law." )

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

My wife and I met in August/99 got married December/99. Would not change a thing. We were still in college and as poor as ever, but we did not let that stop us. The first years were tough, but now we have four beautiful children, and a healthy marriage and are more in love than ever!

We believed that if we knew we were going to marry, why wait and burn.

My biggest cousel would be for after marriage. The greatest need for newlyweds is for counsel after the vows are said. We dish out tons of pre-marital counseling and little after marriage. I personally believe pre-marital counselling is overated(I am not saying not needed), as a pastor I emphasize continued counseling up to a year after the vows are said.

Get to it, the best days are ahead!

That's my
"Let each man be convinced in his own mind"

__________________
Paul W.
Pastor, SBC, soon to be leaving
Girard, Illinois

David, you and I are in almost exactly the same position!

My girlfriend and I desire to be married as well. We have been dating 2yrs and 2 months. She wants to teach music for a while before we have kids and I am going into seminary (through our denomination, RPCUS, which currently is free for ministerial students). We both have one year left to get our bachelor's degree. She works a part time job on the weekends at a music store and I currently run a small online used bookstore. We don't believe funds are sufficient right now to get married, so we are waiting. I am also currently seeking out another part-time job that would have the potential to be a good benefit full-time job to support us while I go through seminary.

We do want to get married, though. And we understand that funds will be tight no matter when we get married. We just don't want to enter marriage with funds TOO tight.

I, too, would like to hear some of the older, wiser members of this board's stories about the early days of their marriage and what they think is the wise thing to do. From some couples in my church I have heard to get married and from others I have heard to be established in your calling before building your home.

__________________
Bradley Conway
Gainesville, GA
Member of Chalcedon Presbyterian Church in Cumming, GA
Under care of Covenant Presbytery as a candidate for the gospel ministry

"You may as well quit reading and hearing the Word of God, and give it to the devil, if you do not desire to live according to it."
- Martin Luther

The idea that you will not be able to support a family at the time you get married should be of some concern(maybe you can). You should at least plan for the idea of having children right away even if you plan not to as it can happen. IOW, have a "what if" scenario. Consider that Children may set you back in your education if not stop you altogether. I also think that your attention may be too divided for the first year of marriage as you have a full plate. Doesn't mean you shouldn't or should, but you should consider these things.

I have some personal experience with this if anybody would like to email/PM me.

__________________
Grace and Peace in Christ,

Brett Rader
Member
Redeemer Presbyterian(PCA)
Austin, TX

Welcome to the board! My wife and I were both in seminary when we were married. Finances were tough. I served as a senior adult minister for next to nothing, and to pay the bills cleaned toilets at the seminary. I think the phrase that Jenn and I grew to quote to each other was "Just because its hard, doesn't mean it’s not right." I think many young people (goodness I sound like my dad) try to create the perfect situation before they get married. It is in the tough times in marriage that you grow. One last thought, the advice we were given when we got married was this, never depend on your wife’s income. If she wants to work great, but bless her in not depending on her income. You will be surprised on how little it takes to truly live.

__________________
Wes Faulk
Southern Baptist
Oklahoma

Chalk up one more to the "enjoy the poverty" team.

My wife and I have been married 11 years and I was making $4.15 an hour at a part-time job in my junior year of university when we were wed. We had met 18 months before, when she was 19 and I was 21. Our first domicile together was a house so tumble down that if Elizabeth dropped an orange in the kitchen, it would roll at a significant speed into the corner of the room. From the kitchen, you could see the lintels of 2 other doors, both at opposite angles to each other. Heat came from open flame heaters in 2 rooms and we had to leave the windows open when we had them on, lest we be poisoned in our sleep. We didn't really notice any of it.

Elizabeth's mother still doesn't tell her friends how old we were when we were married because it is 'scandalous'. Go figure.

__________________
Kevin
Far East
Deacon, Int'l Church

David - welcome to the PB!

It is good to have the blessing of both set of parents. Unfortunately it is not always possible. You are doing the right thing by meeting with your pastor. Lean on his knowledge and wisdom and that of your elders. Age and financial condition may or may not be part of your decision. Continue with your present course of pastoral advice.

__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Visit the Eggus Blog

Thanks everyone for your advice and comments. I will continue in prayer and I look forward to meeting with my pastor again and having him guide us more. If we get his blessing maybe I can cut a deal and have the first ever PB online web-cam wedding. hehehe... EVERYONES INVITED!

__________________
David Franks
Indianapolis,IN
Christ Covenant OPC
www.indyopc.org

Great idea! We could invite all the avatars - Vos, Warfield, Calvin, Edwards, etc! However, wouldn't want to invite them to the reception...too much cigar smoke for your first dance.

__________________
Joel Batts
Christ Presbyterian Church (PCA) - Memphis, TN

"Why wasn't God watching? Why wasn't God listening? Why wasn't God there for Georgia Lee?"
- Tom Waits
But you, O God, do see trouble and grief;you consider it to take it in hand. The victim commits himself to you; you are the helper of the fatherless. - Psalm 10:14

Well as one who loves cigars and pipes I couldnt think of having a first dance without a cigar in my mouth. So they are on the list....

__________________
David Franks
Indianapolis,IN
Christ Covenant OPC
www.indyopc.org

Welcome to the board!

Marriage is a time-consuming venture and it sounds to me as though time is something you don't seem to have right now. Your marriage needs and deserves the proper amount of attention to nurture it and build a strong foundation in those early years. However, if both you and her are totally committed to making it work regardless of the sacrifice it might take then I would do as you are doing and seek the advice of your pastor.

May God's blessing be on both of you.

__________________

Nothing prepared us for the difficulties after the honeymoon. Those first 3-4 years were rough on both Kelly and I. Our premarital counseling was, for lack of a better term, lame. And nothing was offering after we were married.

I have heard of a mentoring program where older couples mentor the newlyweds. I sure wish we could have older mentors ... we might have avoided some of the problems we encountered.

__________________

You sound like a brother after my own heart. One thing that discouraged us, as we look back on the early years, is that people always gave us the impression that marriage is easy. We believed that we were the only Christian couple having the problems we were having. We were so ashamed that we refused to get counsel. Now, as we talk with others we find that they had the same difficulties, and like us, were too ashamed to get counsel.

I remember teaching in a church(while we were struggling at home) on the following passage and admonishing the older men and women to act:
I said,"It is the calling of older men to teach the young men to be sensible husbands and fathers, and you older women need to invest your lives into the young women in the church as the text says".

It fell on deaf ears , nothing changed. My wife and I are determined to not let this be the case as we minister here in Girard.

__________________
Paul W.
Pastor, SBC, soon to be leaving
Girard, Illinois