Were you born Reformed or converted?

Poimen · #1 (**permalink**) 05-14-2005, 01:13 PM

After reading so many of your posts I get the feeling that those of who were born into Presbyterian/Reformed churches are few and far between. I am interested to see the results.

BTW, 'born' Reformed means: a) baptized as an infant b) raised in a church where you were taught either the WCF/WLC/WSC or the 3FU.

I'll start off: I was born in a Christian home and baptized as an infant in the Christian Reformed Church, and we then later left for the Orthodox Christian Reformed Church where I received my catechism training (3FU) and solid preaching.

Average Joey · #2 (**permalink**) 05-14-2005, 01:39 PM

After being born-again I immediately started going to a Reformed church and was "open" to Calvinism.After a year I tried getting away from Calvinism because I realized after talking to a friend that I was only a Calvinist because it is the first church I started attending.After a few difficult questions concerning the soveriegnty of God,I had to come back.Arminianism just left many holes and questions that they could not answer.For example:

"The just shall live by faith.Not of works lest any man should boast,but you can choose to have faith because you have free will."

In other words,the Arminian says not of works to be saved however the contradiction comes in by choosing Christ.Which in itself is a work.

I came to believe again that The Holy Spirit alone gives us His Will to choose him.Not anything within ourselves.I know this is something simple to post,but I never get tired of simply stating that man is 100 percent incapable of choosing Christ.It take God`s DEVINE will to turn a heart to bow to Him.It takes God to make a man feel sorrow for his sins.If God didn`t do this,then why does the sinful man become repentant?Is it because suddenly his "Free Will" feels conviction?How?If a man is a sinner by nature,then how does he suddenly feel sorry for his nature?That`s like saying a man feels sorry because he had to move his bowels.It is in his nature to do so.Just as it is in man`s nature to sin.He cannot stop sinning as well as he cannot stop moving his bowels.I think I`ve said enough.

:P

Puritan Sailor · #3 (**permalink**) 05-14-2005, 01:43 PM

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/vi...=1427#pid14857

See this thread here. If you wish to add your story feel free. The thread is still open.

Poimen · #4 (**permalink**) 05-14-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritansailor
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/vi...=1427#pid14857

See this thread here. If you wish to add your story feel free. The thread is still open.

Great, now I look like an idiot! Plus I lost one post.

Where is the justice? Oh why oh why am I being picked on?

fredtgreco · #5 (**permalink**) 05-14-2005, 03:31 PM

Daniel,

That's OK. You added a poll! You'll keep your posts. But if you had put this in "General Discussions", well then....

sastark · #6 (**permalink**) 05-15-2005, 02:27 AM

I put this over on the thread that Fred linked to but....

By the grace of God, I was born into a reformed family. Praise God!

WrittenFromUtopia · #7 (**permalink**) 05-15-2005, 02:32 AM

Fundamentalist, Arminian, Southern Baptist for 20 years.

Reforming for 2.

Joining the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America on Wednesday!

Scott Bushey · #8 (**permalink**) 05-15-2005, 07:47 AM

Circumcised as a Jew at birth and later baptised by the Roman Catholics. Raised on the Roman Catholic/Judaic fenceline. Attended parochial school as a child and disciplined by the nuns of The Immaculate Conception (ouch). Born again and rebaptised by the Arminians in 1993; two years after my conversion. Became reformed by Gods grace alone in 1998

Presbyrino · #9 (**permalink**) 05-15-2005, 09:06 AM

Catholic -> Pentacostal -> Calvary Chapel -> Orthodox Presbyterian.

My interest in Reformed Theology began when reading a pamphlet titled:
CALVINISM, ARMINIANISM & THE WORD OF GOD by Chuck Smith (which is an anti-Calvinistic, pamphlet). The Lord, in his divine providence, used this pamplet to awaken me to true biblical theology (the doctrines of Grace and Covenant Theology). I have definitely experinced the Lord work in, grand, mysterious ways!

VirginiaHuguenot · #10 (**permalink**) 05-16-2005, 08:03 AM

Raised liberal Roman Catholic. Joined the Baha'i Faith in college. Was converted by the grace of God in college through an Arminian campus ministry. Served as a sexton for two years at an independent Bible Church. Introduced to the Reformed Faith and, glory be to God, though my spiritual journey continues (through the PCA, RPCNA and now the Presbyterian Reformed Church), I have never looked back.

govols · #11 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 06:56 AM

How reformed can I be if I wasn't baptized as an infant? :P

Seriously, I was raised a good ole boy in a SBC (which I am still a part of - Church is still in the SBC although we are Calvinistic). About 5 years ago I was in a Covenant study class, per se, and was thinking about the order of Salvation. I tried to validate that faith came first but couldn't. The Spirit then opened my eyes to the DoG. That first year, especially, was something.

[Edited on 5-17-2005 by govols]

rmwilliamsjr · #12 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 01:49 PM

I'm curious about extending this a bit.
There appears to be two different conversion experiences, those long night of the soul which result in a complete new change of heart, and the covenant child who believed since they were too young to remember. Does anyone have an references on the difference between the experiences and how the first is often set at normative because of the intensity of the emotional experience and radicalness of the change?
tia

sastark · #13 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 02:24 PM

Richard,

I have been asked countless times "When did you become a Christian?" When I reply that I cannot remember a time when I was NOT a Christian, I get wierd looks. I think this is the fault of an over-emphasis by modern evangelicals on "experiencing" salvation. And, without disrespect for our baptist brothers on this board, I think the Anabaptist mindset of needing to be converted as an adult or reaching some sort of "age of accountability" before you can actually be saved is the reason I get the wierd looks. The modern evangelical cannot account for a covenant child.

Since modern evangelicals do not understand covenants, the only conversion option left for them is a sudden, drastic change. Therefore, that is considered normative.

rmwilliamsjr · #14 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sastark
Richard,

I have been asked countless times "When did you become a Christian?" When I reply that I cannot remember a time when I was NOT a Christian, I get wierd looks. I think this is the fault of an over-emphasis by modern evangelicals on "experiencing" salvation. And, without disrespect for our baptist brothers on this board, I think the Anabaptist mindset of needing to be converted as an adult or reaching some sort of "age of accountability" before you can actually be saved is the reason I get the wierd looks. The modern evangelical cannot account for a covenant child.

Since modern evangelicals do not understand covenants, the only conversion option left for them is a sudden, drastic change. Therefore, that is considered normative.

I'd like some help working out the details of these ideas. For they form one of the main points in a Sunday School class in a few weeks on the New Side/Old Side split.

Experientalism, emotionalism, revivalism. express a bias towards the extraordinary, the visible, the unusual. By anchoring a conversion experience in these kinds of carried away, lifted up out of the ordinary, etc the New Side brought pietism and experientialism into the Presbyterian church.

Has anyone thought along these lines or has references to follow up on?
tia.

sastark · #15 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 05:06 PM

I'm afraid I don't have any references for you (although I think Gary North may mention the New Side/Old Side controversy in "Crossed Fingers"). And I haven't thought much about the subject beyond what I posted earlier.

I do want to say that although I was raised in a Reformed home, I in no way view my salvation as any better than those brethren who were converted later in life. Having a conversion "experience", though not necessary unto salvation, in no way invalidates salvation.

I do agree with you that experientalism and emotionalism are close cousins and where one is, the other will soon follow.

govols · #16 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sastark
Richard,

The modern evangelical cannot account for a covenant child.

So all Presby children are / will be saved?

Not being cynical.

[Edited on 5-18-2005 by govols]

turmeric · #17 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 09:26 AM

I think the fault lies with 19th Century revivalism, Finney, Keswick, Moody etc. In our church, we always pray when we baptize an infant, the there will never be a time he can remember when he didn't believe. To join the church a testimony of belief in the Gospel is important. I have the opposite problem on this board - I feel like a weirdo because I DID have a crisis-conversion! It does happen, particularly if one isn't converted until adulthood.

VirginiaHuguenot · #18 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 11:00 AM

I believe there is a place in Presbyterian thought for "age of accountability" or something along those lines. That place is when a covenant child reaches the age of maturity such that they can examine themselves and be examined by a session for admission to the Lord's Supper. Then, in essence, the child publically confesses his own faith and enters into the vows made on his behalf at baptism.

rmwilliamsjr · #19 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by turmeric
I think the fault lies with 19th Century revivalism, Finney, Keswick, Moody etc. In our church, we always pray when we baptize an infant, the there will never be a time he can remember when he didn't believe. To join the church a testimony of belief in the Gospel is important. I have the opposite problem on this board - I feel like a weirdo because I DID have a crisis-conversion! It does happen, particularly if one isn't converted until adulthood.

do you know if this prayer that the infant never know a time s/he didn't believe is online? i'd like to quote it in an essay.

sastark · #20 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by govols

Quote:

Originally posted by sastark
Richard,

The modern evangelical cannot account for a covenant child.

So all Presby children are / will be saved?

Not being cynical.

[Edited on 5-18-2005 by govols]

John - Oh, no! By no means am I saying that all covenant children will be saved. I'm only saying that when a covenant child continues in the way he was taught as a child, the modern evangelical mindset can't comprehend it. "There must be a calendar date where you prayed the sinner's prayer and received Jesus into your heart," says the modern evangelical. Sorry, I don't agree.

Augusta · #21 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 02:06 PM

At my old church they would get a child to say the "sinners prayer" and then they would write their name and the date on a certificate and send it home with the child.

govols · #22 (**permalink**) 05-19-2005, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sastark
John - Oh, no! By no means am I saying that all covenant children will be saved. I'm only saying that when a covenant child continues in the way he was taught as a child, the modern evangelical mindset can't comprehend it. "There must be a calendar date where you prayed the sinner's prayer and received Jesus into your heart," says the modern evangelical. Sorry, I don't agree.

I used to go to a church like that, concerned more on the number of people that got "saved".

Shane · #23 (**permalink**) 05-19-2005, 08:43 AM

I was a Catholic for the first 30 years of my life.
Went through some tough times and turned to the bible and started reading it. I soon discovered that what the bible said seemed to be very different to what I was taught so I started looking around and as usual, the evil one lead be to a horrible Charismatic church and a cell group where the leader thought the Dake bible was the best thing around.

Gods Grace lead me to a bible believing church and I have now been a Christian for about 2 years.