My beloved bride has so thoroughly pumped the WSC into my kids I sometimes fear they recite it in their sleep. It is always amazing to me how much they retain. And when we read the creeds in worship, I'm the only one holding the Trinity Hymnal to be sure I say it right. I am grateful to God for providing such tools with which to train my covenant babes in His truths.

__________________
Brad
Member- Eagle Heights PCA
Winchester, VA

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Hi Adam,

First, I would say that the exception should never define the rule when it comes to our ministry model. Primarily God has ordained the home, not church programs and youth pastors, to teach children the scriptures and train them up to be godly men and women.

With that said, broken homes are a reality in the church. I know my solution will not be "popular," but I believe it is biblical. If a church has a broken home - say a mother with children who has to work to support them - it is the church's responsibility to step in and help. Again, we have seen this first hand in a sister church where the pastors (and other men) would visit the home once a week to help bring male leadership and biblical training. Helping in these situations may require inviting them into our homes for family worship time or special visits with the children by other men in the church to include them in a family.

These same principles should direct how we approach singles in our church, especially those who are away from their families. Last year we had a single young lady attending a local university who visited with us for several months. During her time we consistently invited her into our homes, would have spend time with our families, etc This offers the protection, encouragement and guidance that a single young lady needs who is away from the direct oversight of her father.

To meet the needs of broken homes, shut-ins, and singles, especially in smaller churches, requires our TIME and isn't an 1-2-3 program. It has to be at the heart of a church's ministry philosophy or it will never be effective, and those in the categories above will feel neglected, not a part of the body and third wheels - and usually will not stay long.

Even in our small church, we have 2 singles, one recent widower, and one mature saint married to an uncoverted man who attends every week. We see the challenges on our time and attention on a weekly basis, but we see the glorious fruit of this kind of attention and ministry.

Lastly, if you have a broken home in your church, you should gather the men of the church together to earnestly pray and seek the mind of Christ as to how you can help to make up, by the grace of Christ, that which is lacking. It is not easy, but will reap a harvest unto eternal life!

__________________
Brian Dempsey, Pastor
Christ Reformed Church
www.christreformedchurch.org
Grace Online Library
www.graceonlinelibrary.org

"Knowledge without repentance will be but a torch to guide men to hell." - Thomas Watson

Hello brother. I was wondering if you mean the WSC instead of the WCF?

By being "cool" I mean having the ability to "appeal" to teens. IMO you either have that ability, or you don't. I really don't know what it is.

Yes, we meet the basic needs FIRST. Spurgeon said once we have their hearts the rest of them will follow where ever we lead.

__________________
Adam - Pennsylvania - Baptist

http://www.myspace.com/aleavelle

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/p...5655012&ref=nf

Yes, WSC not WCF

(We should make them memorize the WCF too )

__________________
Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Member Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA

Deo Vindice

I have to agree with those who've said teens can handle what you throw at them theologically. When I was 9 years olds, my family began attending a church which, though fundamental Baptist, had a pastor who preached through the Bible expositorily and encouraged the youth pastor to follow up with what he was doing. My sister was in entering high school at the time and soaked it up like a sponge. By the time we were out of high school, we had sat through preaching that covered all of the New Testament and most of the Old Testament, and we had been encouraged to read through the Scriptures once a year.

Needless to say, I think it is terrible when teens are given a lot of fluff rather than good sound, Biblical teaching. My sister's teens were fed up by the time they reached high school and the youth pastor at their church was still giving them what they called "baby food". They were hungry for strong meat, and it wasn't available to them at the youth group, because they youth pastor was more interested in having a good time.

__________________
J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

This is typically the problem with youth pastors, but it wouldn't have to be.

See the Christianity Today issues about the resurgence of calvinism. We are now HIP.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Revival?

__________________
Jonathan
College Student
Grace Family Fellowship {SBC}
Kentucky

... yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

1 Corinthians 8:6

I'm not a teen any more (I'm 20) but as a teen growing up in the OPC I had a strong interest in learning "deeper," reformed theology. This was in part due to the influence of an excellent youth leader we had who taught us good theology. He is a seminary student and is working towards becoming a preacher. Our youth group had at least an hour or more of good teaching, and we didn't spend much time messing around and playing games. Also, a group of teen boys from 8th grade through high school have begun a young men's discipleship group with our youth leader and our pastor, and they have been reading Packer and Ryle. I think it is ridiculous to assume that teens aren't ready to gain an interest in reformed theology, as I know several at my church who love learning about it. The "teen" stage of life is an unfortunate product of our culture. Didn't John Owen and Jonathan Edwards both start their college education when they were 12?

__________________
Dan Dorman
Member of Pilgrim OPC in my hometown-Bangor, Maine
Currently attending Christ the King OPC in Longview, Texas, where I am a college student

“The happiness of the creature consists in rejoicing in God, by which also God is magnified and exalted” -Jonathan Edwards
What is meant by "Christian Hedonism"?

Scott,
You bring up a great question and I will be glad to give you the perspective of a younger man who was saved in his teenage years. The church I first herd and believed the Gospel was a small country church out in the middle of nowhere. I started going there around the time I was 16 because I liked the preaching. They did not have any other young people my age. All they had was the Gospel and an old preacher who didn't mind telling people about their sin and their need to believe on Christ for their salvation.
Today, over 10 years later thats still what young people need to be saved, so forget all these 'new methods' promoted to get the young people into church all they need is the Gospel.

__________________
Joe
Member
Providence Reformed Baptist Chuch, Toledo Ohio
2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689

And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. Ezk 16:6

How much do we grieve the Holy Spirit by trying to spruce up, water down, or add to the Gospel?

The gospel alone is sufficent for doing the work of God. I think style (traditional or contemporary) is irrelevent as long as it doesn't detract from the Word of God.

People, in trying 'help' God by altering or detracting from His Word may find themselves in this situation:

Hosea 4:6

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.


I do find the growth of interest in reformed theology encouraging though.

I went through my Journaling Bible, noted -- by the verses -- all of the Shorter Catechism in the margins that correspond to those verses. I think it would be nice to have a "colorized" Bible that has the some sort of parallel of all the Creeds / Catechism: WCF, HB, Canon's of Dort References, etc.

__________________
~ Steven Bradford ~
Member Covenant Presbyterian, Chattanooga, TN

Scott,

I know that this is a bit off topic, but my daughter started memorizing question one of the Shorter Catechism when she was about 17 months old, and Genesis 1:1 when she was about the same age.

Children often live up to the standard we expect of them. We need a reassessment of parenting, and then I think we'd get somewhere with our children (of whatever age).

Cheers,

Adam

__________________
Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA

"I fear not to hold with Junius, de Politia Mosis cap. 6, that he who was punishable by death under that Judicial law, is punishable by death still; and he who was not punished by death then, is not to be punished by death now."

I think a lot of young people are ready for the deeper truths of the Reformed faith. I think the problem lies with the parents who still think that teenagers just want to party and go out, and don't really need deep teaching from the Word. In actuality, more than ever, those teens who have grown up in church are desiring some theological heavylifting and will leave their church if they aren't getting it there. I know heaps of young, Black teenagers and "twenty-somethings" who are flocking out of Pentecostal churches in droves in favour of Reformed churches - including myself.

Like I said, the responsibility, IMHO, rests with the parents for not setting a good example. If you don't desire the tough meat of the Word of God, why should your children do it as they grow up? Then again if their parents do not desire the Word seeing as their "man of God" isn't delivering it, then what are we to expect?

__________________
Douglas K. Adu-Boahen
Metropolitan Tabernacle Baptist Church
London, England
Rom 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

http://www.wired4truth.info

I was just reading J.S. Mill's Autobiography (not a good role model by any means), and I think the premise that it begins with is relevant to this discussion and probably true:

"... more than is commonly supposed may be taught, and well taught, in those early years which, in the common modes of what is called instruction, are little better than wasted..."

I know that being made to memorize many, many passages of scripture and the WSC was one of the best things that happened to me as a child...

__________________
Robert M. D. Minto
Dordt College, Sioux Center, IA
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the Glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. II Cor. 3:17-18[
The Veil Away: Truth For Our Times