tattoo

Batman · #1 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:37 PM

Is there anything in scripture (taking nothing out of context) that would argue against getting a tattoo?

LadyFlynt · #2 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:48 PM

I believe so, but give me time to find it again...

tdowns007 · #3 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:48 PM

I've often wondered about that myself.

Augusta · #4 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:48 PM

Leviticus 19:28

28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the LORD.

Batman · #5 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:51 PM

What is the context of Lev. 19:28? What is cutting your flesh for the dead?

tdowns007 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:54 PM

It also talks about cutting your hair a certain way, so that seems to be relevant to that time only.

Augusta · #7 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:55 PM

The title of the passage in NKJV is "moral and ceremonial laws." The same passage talks about not prostituting your daughter, keeping reverence on the sabbath, not regarding mediums or familiar spirits. It is a mixed bag of do's and don'ts for the Jews.

tdowns007 · #8 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 12:56 PM

"œYou shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes. 27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

Augusta · #9 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:02 PM

I have no idea by the way how this effects us today but personally for me I would not get a tattoo just because it is obvious God didn't like them then and He does not change.

The beard reference is addressing something that was going on at the time. It sounds like some particular marring they were doing. Who knows what it was. We all know what a tattoo is though.

Just my two totally prissy cents.

Batman · #10 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:02 PM

I'm wondering if making cuts on your body for the dead is connected to "tattooing yourselves." Why were the Israelites making cuts on their body for the dead? Were they also tatooing themselves for the dead? Is that what this verse is implying?

Augusta · #11 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:16 PM

If you read ahead to chapter 21 even the Levite priests were not allowed to serve in the temple if they had any kind of marring or defect in their skin. Even a scab or rash.

16 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
17 "Speak to Aaron, saying: "No man of your descendants in succeeding generations, who has any defect, may approach to offer the bread of his God.
18 For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long,
19 a man who has a broken foot or broken hand,
20 or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch.
21 No man of the descendants of Aaron the priest, who has a defect, shall come near to offer the offerings made by fire to the LORD. He has a defect; he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God.
22 He may eat the bread of his God, both the most holy and the holy;
23 only he shall not go near the veil or approach the altar, because he has
a defect, lest he profane My sanctuaries; for I the LORD sanctify them."'

The Lord will not reject his people if they have a defect but I can't see purposefully giving yourself a defect or marring yourself knowing that it does not please God. Even if we think it looks cool or nice, we want to please God not man right?

tdowns007 · #12 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:23 PM

What about Plastic surgery? For cosmetic purposes. It's practically a req. here in California.

What about tatto for eyeliner (I think girls do this)?

What about temporary tattoos for the kids?

Batman · #13 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:26 PM

So...are these verses, (Lev. 19) if taken in context, referring to the priests? Lev. 21: 16-23 refers to physical defects...and it is speaking directly to the priests. As far as a tattoo displeasing God...I'm not completely convinced that getting a tatoo would cause God to be displeased, UNLESS, the reference in Lev. 19 applies to us. That's where I'm stuck...and I still don't understand what making cuts upon your body is all about.

Batman · #14 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:31 PM

Revolver...your bicep implants look phenomenal...you have no argument from me!

BobVigneault · #15 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:32 PM

"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."

I believe the argument against tatoos is an intrinsic argument from the many verses condemning the worship of the creature and boastful pride. Getting a tatoo is a way of saying "Hey, look at me, I'm tough, I'm cool." It is an encouragement to glory in the flesh and not in the Lord.

Furthermore, they have long been associated with the rebellious and decadent. Even tatoo 'artists?" are upset now because tatoos are losing their counter culture stigma.

It is taking a mark upon your body by which you are trying to show our allegiance to something or communicate something about yourselve that you think is important. We must ask, what are we trying to communicate, what are we lacking, are we compensating for something? Tatoos send a variety of messages that may be beyond your ability to control.

IMHO, tatoos are a dirty, filthy practice and I believe a slap in the face to God who has given us his mark, the Holy Spirit and who has given us some of his own INVISIBLE attributes. Futhermore, piercings on men are an acquiescence to the feminization of America. My advice: DON'T DO IT!

Real men don't need tatoos to prove they are tough; they don't need anything pierced to prove they can endure pain. Let God be the one you glory in, let God be the defender of your reputation. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of you mind.

New wine skin · #16 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:36 PM

Please dont get a tattoo, you will regret it.

I got a tattoo of my greek letters when I was 18 and reprobate. Wish i had never done that.... the more I think about it, the more I realize how childish I was for getting a tattoo... I dont mean to antagonize anyone, but a tattoo amounts to a way of building up a persons identity or self esteem about themselves.... to feel like they belong. That s why I did it... I am being honest. Now my identity is in Christ. I sincerely hope people wanting a tattoo will remember to honor their body as a clay vessel that is indwelt with Holy Spirit and not do it.

BobVigneault · #17 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:41 PM

Scott, your tender encouragement reminded me that I may have let emotions get the best of me and I sounded a bit harsh in my rant against tatoos. I apologize to any who have gotten tatoos who I may have offended by suggesting that you are in rebellion.

My convictions are strong against tatoos but they are just my convictions and I'm not trying to bring the weight of scripture against my brothers and sisters who may have gotten a tatoo.

Batman · #18 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:45 PM

"It is taking a mark upon your body by which you are trying to show our allegiance to something or communicate something about yourselve that you think is important. We must ask, what are we trying to communicate, what are we lacking, are we compensating for something? Tatoos send a variety of messages that may be beyond your ability to control."
(I don't know how to put the square around a quote).

Bob...I agree with most of what you said. It's something I've definitely thought through. But, if we follow that line of reasoning, then we should also take off our Dodger caps, Nike's, and Nordstrom ties because these all convey a message that show our allegiance to something earthly. I realize tatoos are permanent, whereas a t-shirt can be taken off, but wearing a Yankee cap communicates our alligiance to something we think is important.

Batman · #19 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:49 PM

I guess my point is...what the difference between getting a tattoo of the Dodger "D" and wearing a Dodger cap around? They're both saying you identify with a team...that's it.

turmeric · #20 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:53 PM

I think these Scriptures referred to practices of the times which related to idol worship, the prophets of baal in the Book of Kings did this to invoke their false god.

I think (though not dogmatically) that the modern application would be not to tattoo or cut your hair in a way consistent with modern practices of witchcraft or homosexuality or promiscuity. I realise this presents us with several of these;

BobVigneault · #21 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 01:53 PM

You answered your own question Danny. You can take off your cap or sweatshirt. But to commit your God given flesh to the allegiance of another is quite a diferent subject.

I have a young friend, an unbeliever who regularly considers suicide. He has numerous tatoos. His often repeated saying is, "Well, I think it's time to get some ink therapy done".

I believe like his practice goes back to Adam and Eve attempt to atone for there sins. Deep inside we all still feel the need to atone for our sin. Piercing the flesh is one of those means by which the hurting seek self-atonement. That is my conclusion from watching so many put themselves through this.

Texas Aggie · #22 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 02:06 PM

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God..." Revelation 1:6. This is what God is going to accomplish with us. You are part of a royal priesthood in Christ. Via the elect, He has made kings as well as priests for His glory and dominion.

Please don't relegate His law as only belonging to the Jews... if it is good enough for them, you can bet its good enough for you.

Cutting your flesh is self-mutilation (this is a spiritual concern). The world of the dead is very interested in your defilement. Tattoos are also not in accord with the law of God (whether you are a priest or a king... makes no difference).

john_Mark · #23 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 02:09 PM

I almost got a tattoo. I saw Derek Webb's Five Sola's tattoo and thought it would cool to have a "Soli Deo Gloria" tattoo on my shoulder. I just couldn't bring myself to do it once I thought about whether getting a tattoo would be the most God honoring thing to do. I do enough things in my life that are not God honoring and I didn't want to potentially add one to the list. Especially, one that would be there on a daily reminder.

A friend of mine did, however, get several tattoos. A few people on these boards may be familiar with these already.

Here is a pic of his first: http://redgoatee.net/blog/2005/01/wh...in-galaxy.html
And his second: http://www.redgoatee.net/DSCI0001.JPG

New wine skin · #24 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Batman
I guess my point is...what the difference between getting a tattoo of the Dodger "D" and wearing a Dodger cap around? They're both saying you identify with a team...that's it.

I answer with: a hat keeps the sun off my bald head, my tattoo descrates my body which is not my own. I suppose I could wear a hat with no reference to sports teams but the truth is that the ball cap is not permanent and is cheap. To me the Tattoo requires an obessive desire to associate with an image or idea to want to endure the pain and permance of it. I'm not saying you have an obessive desire, just that too me thats what would justify wanting a tattoo. Just one perspective. Let us all pray for uncommon wisom!

tdowns007 · #25 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 02:18 PM

I think you guys are doing a great job of expressing some of the intrinsic issues with the "why" of getting tattoos.

I have one from my younger days, it's small and of comic hero origins, Thor's hammer, at the time it was more just for fun, commradrie with friends, sense of adventure, etc. (Pre fad though, 20 years ago), I have thought of getting another at times, I think it's possible to want one just as a way of personal expression, I've heard of Christian tattoo artists(and thought it would be cool to express faith that way)...

...but you guys make some great legit points.

One major neg, is, even if you get one for artist reasons, the art fades and loses it's visual appeal over time, so even the "art" becomes not attractive. I've gotten a temporary one with my kids before, kind of fun, expressive, and not permanent.

I still wouldn't mind Captain America's Shield on my right shoulder though.

BobVigneault · #26 (**permalink**) 06-10-2005, 02:20 PM

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
"Why I'm the coolest calvinist in the galaxy"? Your honor, I rest my case.

Hey, I do have Soli Deo Gloria imprinted on my checks. Just as a reminder.