Should Only The Husband Pray in Family Worship?

Nse007 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 05:11 PM

Should only the husband pray in corporate prayer time? I know of a certain mans wife who really enjoys praying outloud when she prays? Is it appropriate for her to do so during family prayer or does just the husband lead the family to God's throne room?

VirginiaHuguenot · #2 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 05:19 PM

To give my

I think the norm is for the husband/father to lead family worship. He is the head of the household and he should be praying for the family (the Directory of Family Worship refers to this duty as belonging to the head of the household). The rest of the family can offer their prayer requests ahead of time and should be praying along with him. If the husband/father is incapicated or absent then the wife/mother is generally next in line to lead family worship. There are some exceptions to the rule which is why I think of this as the norm.

John Howe has some thoughts on women leading family worship when the male head is absent here.

Robert Burns, The Cotter's Saturday Night:

Quote:

The priest-like father reads the sacred page,
...
Then kneeling down to Heaven's Eternal King,
The saint, the father, and the husband prays:

Romans922 · #3 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 05:29 PM

I don't know what you are supposed to do, but I let my wife pray before we read Scripture, and then I typically do the longer prayer following.

etexas · #4 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 05:41 PM

I am not sure about just husbands, I do believe in adult males when possible.

Romans922 · #5 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 05:51 PM

Does Scripture in this sense have any particularities on family worship?

Also, when is a wife to pray publically? Never? Not in Public Worship mind you, just whenever? Is she never to pray when our family is together? If she does, does it go over my male headship role?

Contra_Mundum · #6 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 06:00 PM

I think we ought not try to make the exercise of our faith more strict than the Bible does.

Where does the question come from, "Can women pray aloud in front of men?" Is the concern that if so, then she's "leading in worship"? What is Paul regulating when he command's "silence" from the ladies? He's addressing the matter of church order, specifically public worship. Period. Leading the gathered people in worship is a function of the Ministry. The Ministry is restricted to men, as a reflection of created order.

Beyond that sphere, then, Paul's (the Spirit's) dictum does not pertain. Outside the church, there is greater liberty of expression. We govern our conduct in prayer by the general rules of Christian liberty, prudence, and "the light of nature." If the husband and wife take turns praying aloud, is this not a demonstration of entering into the other's soul? Is it not a demonstration of oneness?

Now, if it is the missus that does all the praying for the family, even when father is present, this gives evidence of imbalance. But finding "ratios", etc., in the Bible is trying to make law what isn't. Trying to press everyone into a mold doesn't work, it only creates social norms that get forced upon all--OK up to a point in voluntary societies, but appalling when (for instance) missionaries with our western norms suppress perfectly reasonable social norms in alien cultures, not because they are evil, but because they aren't famililar.

I do agree that father's should take the natural lead in worship. But his governance may differ somewhat from one house to another.

Puritan Sailor · #7 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 07:17 PM

I think fathers should be the primary prayer leaders, but I think our children need to be given ample opportunities to lead in prayer. You learn with practice, not just observation of your parents. We let our kids pray for meals and even occasionally in family worship.

Romans922 · #8 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I think fathers should be the primary prayer leaders, but I think our children need to be given ample opportunities to lead in prayer. You learn with practice, not just observation of your parents. We let our kids pray for meals and even occasionally in family worship.

I find this same logic of practice also valuable for my wife. How is she to lead other women in prayer if she is not given opportunities to pray aloud. I guess it might be different since my family worship is just me and her!?!

turmeric · #9 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 09:09 PM

Letting the children pray aloud also tells you where they are spiritually. If you are the only one who prays, how do you know they're doing anything besides going through the motions?

I agree with Pastor Bruce.

etexas · #10 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I think fathers should be the primary prayer leaders, but I think our children need to be given ample opportunities to lead in prayer. You learn with practice, not just observation of your parents. We let our kids pray for meals and even occasionally in family worship.

Patrick I do agree in principal but I have a cousin who always demanded her little darlings be the ones to pray at family functions, they were "cute" prayers and since the adults chuckled they worked their prayers to the point of silliness for attention. It led to a conflict between my cousin and I that is only now healing...............about two years later. Let the kids pray if you will, please teach them it is serious teach them how to pray.

LadyFlynt · #11 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I think fathers should be the primary prayer leaders, but I think our children need to be given ample opportunities to lead in prayer. You learn with practice, not just observation of your parents. We let our kids pray for meals and even occasionally in family worship.

This is how we are. It gives us oppurtunities with our children. My husband will open and close in prayer, but will leave time for others to pray in between.

bookslover · #12 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 10:19 PM

The husband should lead in family worship, but it's perfectly acceptable and normal for all participants to pray. After all, it isn't family worship is he does everything!

toddpedlar · #13 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I think fathers should be the primary prayer leaders, but I think our children need to be given ample opportunities to lead in prayer. You learn with practice, not just observation of your parents. We let our kids pray for meals and even occasionally in family worship.

We typically have everyone pray at times, during family worship, though I am the primary pray-er. I pray at the start, and a longer prayer at the end to close the day. My kids very frequently (unless we have company) pray at the dinner table - this is something they've all wanted to do very young (God be praised!), and our youngest, who just turned 2 last month, has made her way into the dinner prayer rotation.

Todd

VirginiaHuguenot · #14 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 10:51 PM

I did a little reading tonight on this subject to see what others have said. Oliver Heywood in Family Altar allows that women may pray aloud in family worship provided that they wear a veil over their face. He concludes: "But I am not positive herein, and leave it to the consideration of others" (p. 405).

Kerry Ptacek, in his book Family Worship: Biblical Basis, Historical Reality, Current Need, published by Southern Presbyterian Press (GPTS), provides a number of Biblical and historical references to show that it is primarily the duty of heads of households to lead the family in prayer as it flows from the headship principle. As God deals covenantally with families, so heads of households stand before God on behalf of their families. He cites Joshua 24.15, among the other examples of the patriarchs. He also draws a parallel between the governors of the church and governors of familes: "Speaking in the assembly is an exercise of the headship of the husband. Since he rules in his household, he also speaks for it, including his wife" (p. 32).

Later on he cites Daniel Cawdrey, Westminster divine and author of Family Reformation Promoted (1656): "For example, Cawdrey argued that the Christian 'chief householder' acts 'in Christ's stead to his family' and exercise the offices of prophet, priest, and king in his instruction, prayer and rule in the family (Cawdrey, pp. 58-9)" (p. 48).

Speaking of the Directory of Family Worship, he says: "It bears emphasizing that the Directory clearly views the male head of the household as the person in charge of all aspects of family worship." (p. 49). The Directory itself says in Sect. IV: "The head of the family, who is to lead in this service, ought to be careful that all members of his household duly attend..."

Ptacek (p. 52) then goes on to cite Richard Baxter's comments in A Christian Directory:

Quote:

It is the will of God that the rulers of families should teach those that are under them the doctrine of salvation, ie., the doctrine of God concerning salvation, and the terms on which it is to be had, and the means to be used for attaining it, and all duties requisite on our parts thereunto. (p. 414)

Direct. V. The husband is to excel the wife in knowledge, and be her teacher in the matters that belong to salvation. He must instruct her in the word of God, and direct her in particular duties, and help her to subdue her own corruptions, and labor to confirm her against temptations; if she doubt of any thing that he can resolve her in, she is to ask his resolution, and he to open to her at home the things which she understood not in the congregation, 1 Cor. xiv. 35. But if the husband be indeed an ignorant sot, or have made himself unable to instruct his wife, she is not bound to ask him in vain, to teach her that which he understands not himself. Those husbands that despise the word of God, and live in willful ignorance, do not only despise their own souls, but their families also; and making themselves unable for their duties, they are usually themselves despised by their inferiors: for God hath told such in his message to Eli, 1 Sam. ii. 30, "Them that honor me, I will honor; and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed."

Direct. VI. The husband must be the principal teacher of the family. He must instruct them, and examine them, and rule them about matters of God, as well as his own service, and see that the Lord's day and worship be observed by all that are within his gates. And therefore he must labor for such understanding and ability as is necessary hereunto. And if he be unable or negligent, it is his sin and will be his shame. If the wife be wiser and abler, and it be cast upon her, it is his dishonor; but if neither of them do it, the sin, and shame, and suffering, will be common to them both.

Direct. VII. The husband is to be the mouth of the family, in their daily conjunct prayers unto God. Therefore he must be able to pray, and also have a praying heart. He must be as it were the priest of the household; and therefore should be the most holy, that he may be fit to stand between them and God, and to offer up their prayers to him. If this be cast on the wife, it will be his dishonor. (p. 439)

And Matthew Henry: "Masters of families, who preside in the other affairs of the house, must go before their households in the things of God. They must be as prophets, priests, and kings in their own families; and as such they must keep up family-doctrine, family-worship, and family discipline: then is there a church in the house, and that is the family religion I am persuading you to." (A Church in the House. A Sermon Concerning Family Religion., p. 251) (Ptacek, p. 52).

He goes on to cite J.W. Alexander's classic Thoughts on Family Worship: "The maintenance of domestic religion in every house is primarily entrusted to the head of the family" (Alexander, p. 43; Ptacek, p. 59). Ptacek: "Alexander viewed the husband as the spiritual guardian of his wife and considered the reversal of that relationship to be "unnatural" (Alexander, p. 46). Family worship is a means for exercising this spiritual guardianship. No one else can exercise this role with his wife. Moreover, a head who does not act as a spiritual leader of his children cannot be replaced by his wife." (Ptacek, p. 59).

J.W. Alexander, p. 193:

Quote:

The person, whose office it is to lead in Family-Worship, is undoubtedly the head of the household. The father is here in his proper place, as the prophet and patriarch of his little State. In the occasional absence of the father, Providence has devolved this, with all other parental trusts, on the solitary, or the widowed mother. And though it brings with it a keen trial to diffidence and feminine reserve, it is also eminently amiable and touching; and dutiful sons will make every effort to lessen the burdens of the maternal heart, when engaged in such a duty. The parent may sometimes see cause to depute this office to a son or brother, when the latter, from education, gifts, or graces, is qualified to take his part with edification. In a house so happy as to comprise several such persons, rotation in the service may be allowed; always reserving to the father, or head, his perogative and responsibility of direction.

BJClark · #15 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 08:20 AM

Isn't the husband STILL leading if/when he delegates to His wife and/or children to also pray?

I don't think a wife/child should just start praying, but if her husband asks her to pray, then He is still (in my opinion) leading His family.

Sebastian Heck · #16 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 08:35 AM

I second that, BJClark! But the wife, being in submission to her husband, better be a female adult and the husband, being the head of his wife, better be male! ;-) Thought I had to make that clear!

Puritan Sailor · #17 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I follow Jesus

Patrick I do agree in principal but I have a cousin who always demanded her little darlings be the ones to pray at family functions, they were "cute" prayers and since the adults chuckled they worked their prayers to the point of silliness for attention. It led to a conflict between my cousin and I that is only now healing...............about two years later. Let the kids pray if you will, please teach them it is serious teach them how to pray.

I don' t think they should seek cute-ness in prayer. But allowing them to pray helps them practice. It gives you occasion to help them learn better how to pray correctly. And as Tumeric noted above, it can give you an indication where they are spiritually (one of many indicators I suppose). It's part of our role in discipleship.

jawyman · #18 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 11:42 AM

I lead our family worship, but we also have time for a Mother's prayer, in which my wife will petition the Lord as a woman, a mother and a wife. I feel that her prayers are in no way exercising authority over our family worship time.

toddpedlar · #19 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawyman

I lead our family worship, but we also have time for a Mother's prayer, in which my wife will petition the Lord as a woman, a mother and a wife. I feel that her prayers are in no way exercising authority over our family worship time.

Indeed - and this is the purpose of our having a prayer time during our worship at home that includes all of us. My wife as mother and wife and my girls as ... girls. It is entirely appropriate, it seems to me, and no abdicating of my own authority of head. We all share together in our petitioning our common Heavenly Father, each in our own way, each appropriately to our roles.

Todd

jawyman · #20 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Indeed - and this is the purpose of our having a prayer time during our worship at home that includes all of us. My wife as mother and wife and my girls as ... girls. It is entirely appropriate, it seems to me, and no abdicating of my own authority of head. We all share together in our petitioning our common Heavenly Father, each in our own way, each appropriately to our roles.

Todd

and

Nse007 · #21 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot

I did a little reading tonight on this subject to see what others have said. Oliver Heywood in Family Altar allows that women may pray aloud in family worship provided that they wear a veil over their face. He concludes: "But I am not positive herein, and leave it to the consideration of others" (p. 405).

Kerry Ptacek, in his book Family Worship: Biblical Basis, Historical Reality, Current Need, published by Southern Presbyterian Press (GPTS), provides a number of Biblical and historical references to show that it is primarily the duty of heads of households to lead the family in prayer as it flows from the headship principle. As God deals covenantally with families, so heads of households stand before God on behalf of their families. He cites Joshua 24.15, among the other examples of the patriarchs. He also draws a parallel between the governors of the church and governors of familes: "Speaking in the assembly is an exercise of the headship of the husband. Since he rules in his household, he also speaks for it, including his wife" (p. 32).

Later on he cites Daniel Cawdrey, Westminster divine and author of Family Reformation Promoted (1656): "For example, Cawdrey argued that the Christian 'chief householder' acts 'in Christ's stead to his family' and exercise the offices of prophet, priest, and king in his instruction, prayer and rule in the family (Cawdrey, pp. 58-9)" (p. 48).

Speaking of the Directory of Family Worship, he says: "It bears emphasizing that the Directory clearly views the male head of the household as the person in charge of all aspects of family worship." (p. 49). The Directory itself says in Sect. IV: "The head of the family, who is to lead in this service, ought to be careful that all members of his household duly attend..."

Ptacek (p. 52) then goes on to cite Richard Baxter's comments in A Christian Directory:

And Matthew Henry: "Masters of families, who preside in the other affairs of the house, must go before their households in the things of God. They must be as prophets, priests, and kings in their own families; and as such they must keep up family-doctrine, family-worship, and family discipline: then is there a church in the house, and that is the family religion I am persuading you to." (A Church in the House. A Sermon Concerning Family Religion., p. 251) (Ptacek, p. 52).

He goes on to cite J.W. Alexander's classic Thoughts on Family Worship: "The maintenance of domestic religion in every house is primarily entrusted to the head of the family" (Alexander, p. 43; Ptacek, p. 59). Ptacek: "Alexander viewed the husband as the spiritual guardian of his wife and considered the reversal of that relationship to be "unnatural" (Alexander, p. 46). Family worship is a means for exercising this spiritual guardianship. No one else can exercise this role with his wife. Moreover, a head who does not act as a spiritual leader of his children cannot be replaced by his wife." (Ptacek, p. 59).

J.W. Alexander, p. 193:

Dear Andrew,

All this good, and I was reading up on Baxter too, but it fails to answer the question. I know that the man is the priest of the home, but does this neccessarily preclude the wife from praying?