is Robert Anthony Schuller reformed?

duncan001 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-25-2008, 03:40 AM

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Please watch the video from round 18th minute on.

Robert Anthony Schuller preached in a State Church in Beijing China
recently, and he claimed he was reformed, saying Calvinism "has been
and is the basis of our theology".

Any comments? Anyway I feel strange.

**DMcFadden** · #2 (**permalink**) 10-25-2008, 04:10 AM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Very interesting. During our Fuller days, he was not particularly known for his Calvinism. And, did you notice the references to books by Peale and his dad in the bulletin? But, since he understands Calvinism as meaning that God takes care of all of the electing and saving, it frees Schuller up to skip the proclaiming the Gospel part and to devote his time to "loving all people" and encouraging them to reach their potential through possibility thinking. I didn't get to the end of the sermon, did he change his message during the last few minutes?

duncan001 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-25-2008, 04:49 AM

I noticed that and know quite something about his father, so I feel strange.

He didn't change his message, at the end is "you can do it".

**turmeric** · #4 (**permalink**) 10-25-2008, 09:13 AM

THAT ain't Calvinist!

Ivan · #5 (**permalink**) 10-25-2008, 11:00 AM

If he's Calvinist, I'm John Calvin.

R. Scott Clark · #6 (**permalink**) 10-25-2008, 11:01 AM

Daniel,

That has been his Father's message for decades but, in his case anyway, it has not been true.

The elder Robert Schuller is not meaningfully Reformed. He might be the epitome of "dead orthodoxy." He professes Reformed convictions but they do not manifest themselves in any way. He does not preach Christ. He is a moralist and a therapist. He does not preach the law really. He preaches self-improvement, which is a sort of law, an insidious law that says, "You can keep this law if you really will." This is not Calvinism. It is Pelagianism.

Mike Horton confronted the elder Bob Schuller, live, on the air on the White Horse Inn many years ago. When confronted with his own words and asked to explain how they relate to Scripture and the Reformed confession, Schuller stormed out of the studio -- on the air! He returned a moment later saying that he thought the show was over.

I've not seen his son often. I try not to watch, but I've seen him enough to see that he's a pale imitation of his positive-thinking father.

**DMcFadden** · #7 (**permalink**) 10-25-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Scott Clark

The elder Robert Schuller is not meaningfully Reformed . . . He professes Reformed convictions but they do not manifest themselves in any way. He does not preach Christ. He is a moralist and a therapist . . . This is not Calvinism. It is Pelagianism.

I've not seen his son often. I try not to watch, but I've seen him enough to see that he's a pale imitation of his positive-thinking father.

The elder Schuller claimed to have done some kind of senior thesis in seminary (?) on Calvin's Institutes.

Here is some of the transcript of the program you cited:

Quote:

HORTON: You write that "the essence of sin is not thinking you're good enough" and that the reason unsaved people reject the gospel is that they "believe they're an unworthy sinner." Again you state that "the unsaved person cannot perceive himself as worthy of divine grace and hence rejects it." But how can a person deserve "undeserved favor"?
SCHULLER: No I never said that....I didn't say that the essence of sin is not thinking you're good enough." I never said that. I know my words. Someone read what I said, re-wrote it, put these words together very carelessly. One adjective placed or misplaced tips the meaning....
HORTON: How about the next phrase...
SCHULLER: I never said that see....so I really don't think the rest of the paragraph deserves the time and attention. Thank you.
(The program goes out to a break and returns with Mike's promise to check his citation with the original -- which incidentally was later found in Schuller's book, "Self Esteem, The New Reformation" -- then Mike asks the following):
HORTON: But Dr. Schuller, did you write "The unsaved person cannot perceive himself as worthy of divine grace and hence rejects it."?
SCHULLER: I may have said that because I am inclined to believe very definitely that the person who is lost and unsaved is afraid of the light. The person who is only used to darkness is afraid of the light and I think unsaved people do not consider themselves worthy enough; I think that's absolutely true, "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us."
HORTON: But not while we were worthy Christ died for us?
SCHULLER: Listen, if Christ had died for somebody who wasn't worth anything that would have been a lousy deal. God is a good steward and he teaches us to be good stewards. God knows the worst sinner is worth saving so that he would die on a cross for us.
HORTON: But how can we deserve undeserved favor?
SCHULLER: You tell me! I don't have to answer that question. You're asking me how we can be saved by grace. It's because of the love of God, and we are saved by grace.
HORTON: But if we are worth it, then it is not grace, it's merit.
SCHULLER: No, no. It means that we are still creatures of God, we are still sons of God. We have value. We still have value.
HORTON: I agree with you to the extent that we are created in the image of God...
SCHULLER: And even the value of a human being who is not a Christian is worth dying for on the cross. That's what God said. Don't ask me why, that's his evaluation of who we are.
HORTON: But isn't it really the goodness of God that moved him to put Christ on the cross, seeing our misery, rather than God seeing something in us worth redeeming?
SCHULLER: Well... I think.... yes and yes. Yes and yes to that one....