Protestant Reformed Churches & Homeschooling - Page 2

Virginia Marine · #41 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 09:42 AM

I think you have to be careful with this subject. I have attended churches (particularily OPC) where people were almost looked down upon if they didn't home-school. I have seen this subject divide churches, driving a wedge between church members. We home-schooled for several years and have been blessed in recent years to be able to pay for our kids to attend an excellent Christian School, but that in no way should define what kind of Christians my kids are or what office I can hold in the church. My wife and I lead our senior high youth group in our church and have been blessed by some of the young men and women's testimonies of being able to witness to fellow classmates in public school. There are several Christian families in our church who do not have the means to either homeschool or send their kids to a Christian school. Is that a poor reflection on them???

SouthernHero · #42 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 09:56 AM

I posted this story a little while back, as it was unfolding, and it got deleted by the mods as a "rumor." Glad to see that it made it through; it's a tragic thing.

PS: MOSES, I like the cut of your jib. Keep it up.

tcalbrecht · #43 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 11:27 AM

Can someone reconcile these two statements? I must be missing something.

Quote:

January/February, 2008 at the Georgetown PRC

Classis East met at its regularly scheduled time on Wednesday, January 9, 2008, but because of the business before it, held continued sessions on February 13, 14, and 27, 2008. All the churches were represented by two delegates for these sessions. Rev. C. Haak served as chairman. Classis treated protests from four individuals and a consistory against decisions taken by classis in September, 2007 regarding a pastor’s calling with regard to the education of his children in light of Article 21 of the Church Order. Classis did not uphold any of these protests, thus allowing the original decisions of classis to stand. (For a complete presentation of the decisions taken by the September, 2007 classis confer the Report of Classis East given in the November 1, 2007 issue of the Standard Bearer.) Classis also dealt with the report of a special committee appointed to assist the Grace PRC in implementing the decisions taken by classis. The discussion of this report and of the advice of a committee of pre-advice was held in closed session. Classis, however, decided to make its decisions public. Classis decided 1) that, in light of the requirements of Article 21 of the Church Order, Grace PRC’s consistory erred when they judged valid the reasons for their pastor’s withdrawing his children from two good Christian schools and home schooling them; 2) to advise Grace PRC to work with their pastor to show him the inadequacy of his reasons, and to inform their congregation of this and of the fact that they are working with him to show him that his reasons are not acceptable as the pastor of Grace PRC. Because of classis’ concern for the welfare of the congregation of Grace PRC and for the restoration of peace and unity in that congregation, it further advised the Council of Grace PRC to consider whether their pastor can be an effective preacher/pastor to his congregation and whether he can lead them out of their present unrest. Classis appointed another special committee to assist Grace’s Council and Consistory in implementing these decisions should they desire such help. An overture to Synod 2008 regarding Article 21 of the Church Order was considered and judged to be an improper overture. The consistory submitting this overture subsequently withdrew it.

Quote:

Volume 84 - Issue 3
Report of Classis East
The Standard Bearer

The appellant argued incorrectly that Article 21 requires that all families, regardless of circumstances, must send their children to our schools, and consistories must work with these parents until their children attend these schools. The intent of Article 21 is, rather, that the church (consistory) promote good Christian schools, not force them, and urge parents to use these schools, not coerce them, and that the preaching regarding the demands of the covenant should be done persistently, in a wise and timely manner.

The second appellant asked the consistory to require that their pastor reenroll his children in our Christian schools so that peace in the congregation could be restored. This appeal was not upheld, on the ground that such an action by a consistory would improperly require their pastor to act against his conscience. Home schooling falls within the area of Christian liberty; no member, not even an officebearer, may be required to act against his conscience on a matter of Christian liberty, though in certain instances an officebearer's holding to his conscience may jeopardize his office; therefore the consistory may not seek to restore peace in the congregation by forcing their pastor to enroll his children in PR schools against his conscience.

If attendance at church schools is not mandatory according to Article 21, and if homeschooling is a matter of conscience, how can the pastor's determination (reasons for homeschooling) be judged either valid or invalid by his consistory? Is the classis saying that the pastor’s conscientious decision, which he has the right to make for his family, was contrary to the best interests of the congregation?

MOSES · #44 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turmeric

Are you sure this is a hill you want to die on? The education of our children is important, but it seems like a stretch to equate a choice, often made because of necessity, as sin. The Bible doesn't mention public school anywhere. It does state that Daniel went to a very pagan school.

<---bold emphasis mine.

Please note:
Daniel went to a very pagan school BECAUSE of SIN..i.e., the Babylonian captivity was do to the sin of covenant breaking by Israel (Judah precisely). Daniel was FORCED into that school, by the state because of the sins of his fathers in breaking covenant with God.

Do we really want to follow such an example?

As for the right or wrong of sending your covenant child to state schools let me ask another question.
Would it be ok for me to send my covenant child to a fundamentilist Muslim school because it is close to where I live, the bus picks them up, they have a good math program, and because most of all it is "Free"(supposedly)?
Should I send my christian child to that Muslim school?

Well the muslim school has a world view that is closer to that of Christianity then does the state schools. The muslim school would actually be the lessor of two evils.

The relegion of the state schools is much, much more hostile to the christian worldview.

Note: All education is relegious in nature...wether it is christian or humanist...the very act of educating is going to be based on a "worldview" and it is going to be relegious.
The federal government has not not promoted a relegion...They have actually mandated a state relegion. It is called humansim, and the state school (with compulsory education laws) is the "church" where indoctrination in this relegion takes place. Again, the State has an official state relegion, and it is taught in the state schools.

So you really only have a few choices...send your children to Christian schools, homeschool, or send your children to OTHER relegious institutions like a muslim school, or a state (humanism) school, or a Roman Catholic school.

As the example of Daniel, which was given, shows...Having your child educated in "pagan" (non-christian) schools is a result of sin and covenant breaking...
That may be someones only choice (i agree) but that ONLY choice is still a result of SIN...(just like Daniel)

Answerman · #45 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 01:56 PM

I see the proper role for the leadership in the church is to point out what the Bible teaches regarding the parents role in education, which places the responsibility squarely on the father/parents. So the hierarchy would look like this, Christ disciples pastors (through the Word), pastors disciple parents, parents disciple children. Whether or not the parents decide to delegate this role to another trusted person is a matter of Christian liberty but it is the most serious matter to be undertaken by a Christian and should not be taken lightly.

Which reminds me of this quote from R.L. Dabney “The education of children must be the most important business done on earth, it’s the one business for which the earth exists, every parent needs to know that this is his purpose for being kept alive by God, that this is his task on earth.”

The gravity of this task cannot be overemphasized.

calgal · #46 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 07:25 PM

As long as the PRC writes into the contract of their ministers that school tuition is waived, what is the problem? PRC families being large it would seem to save about $5-6K per year per kid. Then the problem is solved......

HaigLaw · #47 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virginia Marine

I think you have to be careful with this subject. I have attended churches (particularily OPC) where people were almost looked down upon if they didn't home-school. I have seen this subject divide churches, driving a wedge between church members. We home-schooled for several years and have been blessed in recent years to be able to pay for our kids to attend an excellent Christian School, but that in no way should define what kind of Christians my kids are or what office I can hold in the church. My wife and I lead our senior high youth group in our church and have been blessed by some of the young men and women's testimonies of being able to witness to fellow classmates in public school. There are several Christian families in our church who do not have the means to either homeschool or send their kids to a Christian school. Is that a poor reflection on them???

Colonel, I gotta amen you heartily, as I think the core issue here is parental choice in education, as a liberty of conscience that has its own whole chapter in the WCOF. As a lawyer in Texas defending home schoolers back during the 80's, I always felt that was the core liberty we were fighting for.

staythecourse · #48 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 09:46 PM

From what I have seen, home-schoolers are a cut above in knowledge. That is from my limited experience (and their on-gong habit of winning national spelling bees)

But I didn't realize pride was becoming an issue until I heard a pastor ask from the pulpit "Who here knows Neville Chamberlain? Ahh I see we have some home schoolers in the congregation"

He home-schooled his children...

Answerman · #49 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virginia Marine

There are several Christian families in our church who do not have the means to either homeschool or send their kids to a Christian school. Is that a poor reflection on them???

When the Bible commands Christians to raise our children up in the nurture and admonition or of the Lord, we were not given the qualifier, "if you can afford it."

Homeschooling does not have to cost anything. I have found enough free material online to out do any public school in terms of preparing them to live the Christian life. And even if you didn't have any material, you still have all you need to complete this God given task. All it really takes is a commitment of time spent training them in the most important aspects of life for a Christian. Throughout most of history, homeschooling was the default method for education. In most cases they were trained in the trade of the father, just like Jesus was trained in carpentry.

Our homeschool consists mostly of Bible reading and memorization, prayer, catechism, psalm singing and then the lesser things such as math, history and science and all from a Christian perspective, and yes, even math needs to be taught from a Christian perspective. Our children are 10, 8 and 7. When they are ready, I plan on teaching them philosophy and apologetics from a perspective that presupposes the Bible as a guide to all truth, so by the time they are ready to go out on their own, they will be prepared to think through every problem that they may face as a Christian should think, anything less than this is a disservice to God and our children.

If we truly love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul and strength, we will obey God's commandment to teach His words to our children when we sit at home, when we walk along the road, when we lie down and when we rise up. We will tie them as a sign upon our hands and as frontlets between our eyes and write them upon the doorframes of our houses and on our gates.

So to answer your question, yes, this is a poor reflection on them and their leaders that chose not disclose this information to them.

If this sounds preachy, remember, I have to preach this to myself everyday. My wife and I see this as a sacred duty to God. Many times my wife and I have been tempted to give up and have both of us work, but knowing what we know about how the evil people that control the government education system in our country have devised plans to manipulate our children into rejecting God and His word, we are all the more adamant at staying the course and thwarting their wicked plans. If you don't believe that this is infact what is happening, all you have to do is read their writtings. Here is a reading list that catalogues these facts.

NEA, Trojan Horse in American Education - Samuel Blumenfeld
The Underground History of American Education - John Taylor Gatto
The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America - Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt
Brainwashed - Ben Shapiro
The Harsh Truth About Public Schools - Bruce Shortt
Let My Children Go - Ray Moore

Any one of these books will give you a good outline about what is happening in government schools and that it is all intentional. I am not saying that everyone down the ranks knows what is going on but the actions at the top are very methodical and deliberate. All I ask is that you research this subject by reading some of these books before coming to any final conclusions.

MOSES · #50 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Answerman

Homeschooling does not have to cost anything..

The average cost per year for a state school child in my area is over $7000 per child.

Note: this is not voluntary...by threat of inprisonment the local govt. takes this money from me every year per child.
--if I have 5 kids then I (in essence) have to pay $35,000 per year to educate them.

That is a lot of money.

State schooling is EXTREMELY expensive...and those parents who send thier children to state schools because it is "free" need to have thier heads examined.

Mr. "answerman" does more then speak truth when he say's "homeschooling does not have to cost anything"

Note: I live in a state that is supposedly ranked the 48th state in school funding...so my $7000 per year per child example is way low for most of you.

LadyFlynt · #51 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 07:53 AM

It is true that there are ways to homeschool even for those with next to nothing in our country. It's called "Homeschooling on a shoestring" and many people do it. I've even known families where there were family crisis of all sorts that have continued to homeschool. It's possible.

smhbbag · #52 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

As long as the PRC writes into the contract of their ministers that school tuition is waived, what is the problem? PRC families being large it would seem to save about $5-6K per year per kid. Then the problem is solved......

That would solve the problem, if a lack of funds is what caused the Pastor not to send his kids to that school.

It would not solve the problem if the Pastor simply preferred to homeschool, for whatever valid reasons of Christian liberty he had. Maybe his wife just plain enjoyed teaching at home, or they had a lot of plans for educational field trips that are not compatible with a school schedule, or he wanted them to learn subjects not available in the PRC school. There could be a dozen other reasons that are legitimate, and which one it is really doesn't matter - and most of the possible reasons contain no necessary insult to the PRC school. And I don't think he really owes anyone an answer for why he wants to homeschool, though he should probably nicely offer one without apologizing for it, as a means of keeping peace.

In summary, the PRC folks who (evidently) have their knickers in a bunch over this need to get a life.

HaigLaw · #53 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smhbbag

... the Pastor simply [may have] preferred to homeschool, for whatever valid reasons of Christian liberty he had. Maybe his wife just plain enjoyed teaching at home, or they had a lot of plans for educational field trips that are not compatible with a school schedule, or he wanted them to learn subjects not available in the PRC school. There could be a dozen other reasons that are legitimate, and which one it is really doesn't matter - and most of the possible reasons contain no necessary insult to the PRC school. And I don't think he really owes anyone an answer for why he wants to homeschool, though he should probably nicely offer one without apologizing for it, as a means of keeping peace.

In summary, the PRC folks who (evidently) have their knickers in a bunch over this need to get a life.

This is a very good point. He might even offer to help with a fundraiser for the school, or some other kind of olive branch for the people who have their shorts in a knot, without compromising his parental principles over his choice to home school.

tcalbrecht · #54 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOSES

The average cost per year for a state school child in my area is over $7000 per child.

I did some quick math and figured that we've saved our local school district about $650,000 over the course of homeschooling seven children … and not even a thank you from the school board.

SueS · #55 (**permalink**) 05-15-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcalbrecht

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOSES

The average cost per year for a state school child in my area is over $7000 per child.

I did some quick math and figured that we've saved our local school district about $650,000 over the course of homeschooling seven children … and not even a thank you from the school board.

Of course not - that's $650,000 that the district didn't receive from the state! It's all about warm bodies in seats that bring in money - who said it was about educating the child???

HaigLaw · #56 (**permalink**) 05-15-2008, 10:39 PM

One of the interesting things about defending home-schooling or other private-schooling is the double standard the statists use. They want to insist upon forms of credentialism by the private competition, but they would never agree to even a nominal $50 fine for educational neglect by private or public educators.

christianyouth · #57 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 07:02 AM

Why Home Schools Are Superior to Private Schools by Gary North

Virginia Marine · #58 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Answerman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virginia Marine

There are several Christian families in our church who do not have the means to either homeschool or send their kids to a Christian school. Is that a poor reflection on them???

When the Bible commands Christians to raise our children up in the nurture and admonition or of the Lord, we were not given the qualifier, "if you can afford it."

Homeschooling does not have to cost anything. I have found enough free material online to out do any public school in terms of preparing them to live the Christian life. And even if you didn't have any material, you still have all you need to complete this God given task. All it really takes is a commitment of time spent training them in the most important aspects of life for a Christian. Throughout most of history, homeschooling was the default method for education. In most cases they were trained in the trade of the father, just like Jesus was trained in carpentry.

Our homeschool consists mostly of Bible reading and memorization, prayer, catechism, psalm singing and then the lesser things such as math, history and science and all from a Christian perspective, and yes, even math needs to be taught from a Christian perspective. Our children are 10, 8 and 7. When they are ready, I plan on teaching them philosophy and apologetics from a perspective that presupposes the Bible as a guide to all truth, so by the time they are ready to go out on their own, they will be prepared to think through every problem that they may face as a Christian should think, anything less than this is a disservice to God and our children.

If we truly love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul and strength, we will obey God's commandment to teach His words to our children when we sit at home, when we walk along the road, when we lie down and when we rise up. We will tie them as a sign upon our hands and as frontlets between our eyes and write them upon the doorframes of our houses and on our gates.

So to answer your question, yes, this is a poor reflection on them and their leaders that chose not disclose this information to them.

.

You're assuming that all of these families have two parents in a stable home that have all of the benefits of home schooling available to them... My intent was certaintly not to argue about the benefits of a home school education. We home schooled each of our three kids for 5 years and I would be the first to agree with the blessing that it was for our entire family. My point is that whether a family chooses to home-school, place their kids in a church sponsored Co-op educational curricullum, pay for a private Chrstian education, or even have to utilize public education; that factor alone should not be used to determine whether they are capable or qualified to serve in a church office. BTW, I have read many of the referrences you sited... Good reads. I don't think you're being "preachy", I just think you missed my point...

Pilgrim · #59 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virginia Marine

I think you have to be careful with this subject. I have attended churches (particularily OPC) where people were almost looked down upon if they didn't home-school. I have seen this subject divide churches, driving a wedge between church members. We home-schooled for several years and have been blessed in recent years to be able to pay for our kids to attend an excellent Christian School, but that in no way should define what kind of Christians my kids are or what office I can hold in the church. My wife and I lead our senior high youth group in our church and have been blessed by some of the young men and women's testimonies of being able to witness to fellow classmates in public school. There are several Christian families in our church who do not have the means to either homeschool or send their kids to a Christian school. Is that a poor reflection on them???

Good post. It does appear that the devil has used this issue to cause strife in the churches. Some homeschoolers have gone into home (or family) churches too because they can't find a "homeschooling church" i.e. one that agrees with them that it should be homeschool or the highway. (No, I am not saying a church can't meet in a home.) We can see from this issue how easy it is to fall into eisogesis and fanaticism, if not idolatry.