Thread: Profanity from the pulpit?

I've heard on several radio shows in the last couple of days that preachers, even in "conservative" churches are using profanity from the pulpit. The radio people stated that when asked about it, the preachers say they are meeting people where they are. They are trying to become more approachable to the "regular" people in the congregation. Is this really a trend? This doesn't happen ever in my church, but is this really becoming a problem in previously good churches?

Whether it's happening in "previously good churches" or not, it's reprehensible wherever it is happening. We don't want to "meet people wherever they are" but preach the Gospel that the Lord would move them to wherever they need to go.

I can only confirm the content of where I have been. Up to this date the only words I have heard from the pulpit which some may complain about being used are "hell" and "damn". However, they were used in their proper context as a place and an act of God respectively.

I have downloaded sermons with the word "sucks" included, but it was not related to nursing, it was expressing the inferiority of something. That may be an issue with some.

I think there is a Biblical basis for some tailoring of the message depending on the audience, but, as with most things, this is often taken way too far.

Without getting graphic, what words are they using? Not the defcon red stuff I hope.

[Moderator]Don't go down the Driscoll road again.[/Moderator]

Originally Posted by Vonnie Dee

I've heard on several radio shows in the last couple of days that preachers, even in "conservative" churches are using profanity from the pulpit. The radio people stated that when asked about it, the preachers say they are meeting people where they are. They are trying to become more approachable to the "regular" people in the congregation. Is this really a trend? This doesn't happen ever in my church, but is this really becoming a problem in previously good churches?

Evon,

Profanity is defined by Noah Webster under profaneness:

PROFA'NENESS, n. Irreverence of sacred things; particularly, the use of language which implies irreverence towards God; the taking of God's name in vain.

No minister of the gospel may use profanity without being subject to God's curse, and should be brought up on charges.

There are other words which we may refer to as vulgarity, but which must not be confused with profanity. Vulgarity simply refers to words which are common to people, but does not necessarily mean that they are profane.

Also, there are some vulgarities which can be used in such a way as to violate the 7th Commandment, and these ought also to be chargeable offenses in a minister if used as such.

The interesting thing is that Scripture uses some of the vulgarities which may even seem overtly sexual, but which are not used so as to violate the 7th Commandment. Also, the Bible uses other non-profane vulgarity, and even quotes certain instances of profanity, or alludes to the same. The non-profane vulgarity used in the Prophets and Apostles ought to act as a check to prudishness, but should not be used as a license for regular vulgarity. Their vulgarity was calculated, discreet, and infrequent.

Cheers,

John MacArthur has a good discussion on CD about this. His ministry sent me one and I'm sure you can still acquire it through "Grace to You" Ministries.

I believe it is just the next generation of what flows from the seeker sensitive movement we've seen for many years now. We've entertained people to death and still can't reach Joe six-pack, so now lets just start talking like Joe to get him to church. How sad.

From what I have heard personally, and know, there are a very small number of teachers who, theologically, are conservative, and who have used language that is inappropriate. I'd say it most certainly is a growing trend, but I don't know that the language-usage aspect of it is necessarily a growing trend in good churches. The growing trend is called "missional adaptation", or "Gospel-contextualization". The idea, of itself, isn't necessarily wrong or evil, but it seems to be perverted often. It's basic premise is that we ought to preach the Gospel in a way, or teach in a way that relates the Gospel to people's culture; and that doesn't necessitate we use tv references.

Matt Chandler is one example. He preaches down south, in Texas, where he believes legalism and moralism have dwarfed people's understanding of the Gospel; therefore, he sees his contextualization as being his teaching the Gospel, more often than not, in contrast to this legalism. Such reasoning can hardly be argued against, especially when you consider the apolegetical nature of many of the reformers sermons. The reformers would often state the Gospel in terms of its relation the false Gospel of the Roman catholic church.

As far as the profane speech goes, and the mixing of worldliness with holiness in some people's sermons and church practices, history may prove that a large number of pastors ARE likely (already) influenced, to some degree, by this growing trend; others will likely continue to jump on board. Sadly, many, if not most of these men (and women) aren't even born-again; so for them to adopt unbiblical methods is not surprising. What we also know, however, is that God has a peculiar bunch who would rather be burnt alive than pervert the Gospel and their Gospel ministries; and that this zealous group will also make disciples to continue combating these unbiblical, demon-inspired idealogies. And to this end we should labor in prayer. We should do all that is within our power to influence the body of Christ with sound doctrine and practices- doing all things in humility and love.

Originally Posted by Christusregnat

There are other words which we may refer to as vulgarity, but which must not be confused with profanity.

It is always good to distinguish between profanity and vulgarity, but vulgarity is still not appropriate in polite society.

Originally Posted by Edward

Originally Posted by Christusregnat

There are other words which we may refer to as vulgarity, but which must not be confused with profanity.

It is always good to distinguish between profanity and vulgarity, but vulgarity is still not appropriate in polite society.

Then I will stay out of polite society with Moses, Isaiah and the Apostle Paul who used vulgarity when necessary.

Here's a note on Paul's use of "vulgarity" - skubalon: http://www.leithart.com/archives/002863.php

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Here's a note on Paul's use of "vulgarity" - skubalon: http://http://www.leithart.com/archives/002863.php

I can't seem to pull up this link (it says it's broken).

This is the word sometime translated "dung," albeit this is a less vulgar English word than could legitimately be used.

Originally Posted by Christusregnat

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Here's a note on Paul's use of "vulgarity" - skubalon: http://http://www.leithart.com/archives/002863.php

I can't seem to pull up this link (it says it's broken).

This is the word sometime translated "dung," albeit this is a less vulgar English word than could legitimately be used.

The link had a double "http" in it. Try this:

Leithart.com | Skubalon

I just don't see the point of profanity. Is there not a more creative way to get your point across?

I understand letting a word slip in a shocking or painful situation, but it seems odd to plan to say a vulgar or profane word - especially in any sort of public address.

I guess I'm just too old fashioned...

Originally Posted by Montanablue

I guess I'm just too old fashioned...

I wish people would admit this....some people are just "old fashioned" and not necessarily biblical.

Men of God are sick with the seeker friendly movement, it has turned our Churches into a pool of weakness filled with fairy's.
Men of God are now preaching tough messages out of rebellion to the current Church, and to get the message across. I'm not for cursing in the pulpit, nor do I like cursing, however I am for harsh words being thrown out. Even Jesus used harsh words. "You blood sucking Vipers fit for hell." Even OT prohets used harsh words. If we preach Jesus is my girl Friend for the next five years, Christianity will die in Americia. Face it, we are looking at the coffins right now.

Things have got to change, but that does not mean we should be cursing, but we should be getting stern.

I believe it is just the next generation of what flows from the seeker sensitive movement we've seen for many years now. We've entertained people to death and still can't reach Joe six-pack, so now lets just start talking like Joe to get him to church. How sad.

Pastor Dan Phillips (of Pyromaniacs) does a great sermon on this, in which he talks about the use of such things as the F-word in society, and how many mainstream evangelicals want to put the Bible and preaching into the "language of the people". I remember something to the effect of him asking "Why would such a great idea be neglected by the secular world? Why is the 6 o'clock news not filled with the expletives so common in our everyday language? How is it that they are able to communicate all the major events going on around the globe without dropping the F-bomb even once?"

When I hear/see it used by preachers, this always comes to mind: "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." I don't know that there is ever a reason to use it in transmitting the gospel, skubalon notwithstanding.

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." How do those that use such vulgarities apply this?

Look, Friends, those of you who want to disparage us old prudes, etc. because we're old fashioned, doesn't mean that the only reason we believe such things is because it's old fashioned. Bad language, and poor use of acceptable language, has been around since the Fall. Let's not fool ourselves. The use of profanity, in whatever culture one finds himself, is ubiquitous and ubiquitously wrong.

Further, it's not simply certain words that are inherently sinful that are the problem, but that coupled with unmoderated language altogether. We violate the 6th Commandment many times toward our brethren using much less outwardly abrasive language when we give them a roll of the eyes, are a treatment of "your response is not even worthy of a listen-to." I think we would do well to consider the whole of scripture when it comes to our use of language period. The Bible is not silent on the manner in which Christians ought to speak, and I believe that if we're honest with ourselves, it includes the use of profanity (not vulgar language - i.e. the common language of the people).

I believe Dr. Greg Bahnsen makes a great biblical and pastoral case concerning this in his A Moral Checkup for Your Mouth:

It is every Christian’s heart-felt desire to live a more holy life, one that better glorifies God and displays His love. The process by which believers grow in holiness is called "sanctification." It is the result of God’s powerful, transforming grace within us.

The outworking of the Holy Spirit’s sanctifying work is not as vague or mystical as many well-meaning Christians imagine. It can be seen in very definite ways in our conduct—particularly in the way we use our mouths. About our linguistic habits God tells us: "All of us stumble in many ways, but if anyone is never at fault in what he says, then he is mature, able to control his whole body" (James 3:2).

Reforming the way we use our words, then, is a key to sanctification. The mouth is so troublesome and sinful that, if it can be made more holy, so can other areas of our conduct. For that reason, the following "oral check-up" has been devised, summarizing much of what the Bible teaches us about the way we should speak. If Christian morality were more evident here, God would surely receive greater glory—not only among us, but also through us before the world.


Notice the Destructive Power of Words

"Thy tongue devises very wickedness: like a sharp razor, working deceitfully.... Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful tongue" (Psalm 52:2, 4).

"Who have whet their tongue like a sword, and have aimed their arrows, even bitter words. (Psalm 64:3)

"There is rash speaking which is like the piercings of a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings health" (Proverbs 12:18).
"A worthless man devises mischief, and in his lips there is as a scorching fire" (Proverbs 16:27).

"Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit: the poison of asps is under their lips" (Romans 3:13).


Do You Defame Fellow Believers with Harsh Language?

"A soft answer turns away wrath, but a grievous word stirs up anger. The tongue of the wise utters
knowledge aright, but the mouth of fools pours out folly... A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness therein is a breaking of the spirit" (Proverbs 15:1-4).

"The tongue is a fire, the world of iniquity among our members which defiles the whole body...and is set on fire by hell.... It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith we bless the Lord and Father, and therewith we curse men, who are made after the likeness of God: out of the same mouth comes forth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.... If you have bitter jealousy and faction in your heart, glory not and lie not against the truth. This wisdom is not a wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.... But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits..." (James 3:5-18).


Do You Criticize Unnecessarily or Talk Too Much?

"In the multitude of words there is no lack of transgression, but he who refrains his lips does wisely" (Proverbs 10:19).

"He who goes about as a talebearer reveals secrets, but he who is of a faithful spirit conceals a matter" (Proverbs 11:13).

"A perverse man scatters abroad strife, and a whisperer separates best friends" (Proverbs 16:28).

"He who spares his words has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding. Even a fool, when he holds his peace, is counted wise. (Proverbs 17:27-28).

"For lack of wood the fire goes out, and where there is no whisperer, contention ceases. As coals are to hot embers, and wood to fire, so is a contentious man to inflame strife. (Proverbs 26:20-21).


Do You Judgmentally or Maliciously Speak Evil of Fellow Believers?

"Speak not one against another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks against the law and judges the law...[and so] is not a doer of the law" (James 4:11).

"You sit and speak against your brother; you slander your own mother’s son" (Psalm 50:20).

"Who are you to judge the servant of another? Before his own lord he stands or falls.... But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you set at nought your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment-seat of God.... Let us not therefore judge one another any more. (Romans 14:4, 8-13).

"All the day long they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil" (Psalm 56:5).

"I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be...a reviler.... Be not deceived: neither fornicators...nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:10).


Do You Speak Uncharitably?

"Love is longsuffering and is kind...does not behave itself unseemly, seeks not its own, is not provoked, takes not account of evil, rejoices not in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; it bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).


Do You Interpret People In The Best Light?

The man with unsound and ungodly attitudes] is puffed up...whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil suspicion..." (1 Timothy 6:4).

[By contrast, the inspired writer, after speaking of evil actions, said:] "But beloved we are persuaded better things of you and things that accompany salvation..." (Hebrews 6:9).

[Examples of seeing others in the worst light: 1 Samuel 1:13-15; 17:28; 2 Samuel 10:3; 16:3; 19:25-27; Nehemiah 6:6-8; Acts 24:2,5. We can take one instance —] "And when the barbarians saw the venomous creature hanging from [Paul’s] hand, they said one to another, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he has escaped from the sea, yet Justice has not allowed to live (Acts 28:4).}


Is What You Say Kind?

"Let not kindness and truth forsake you; bind them about your neck: write them upon the tablet of your heart" (Proverbs 3:3).

"The wise in heart shall be called prudent; and the sweetness of the lips increases learning.... Pleasant words are as a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and health to the bones" (Proverbs 16:21, 24).

"She opens her mouth in wisdom, and the law of kindness is on her tongue" (Proverbs 31:26).

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Galatians 5:22-23).

"And be kind one to another, tenderhearted" (Ephesians 4:32).

"Put on...a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, gentleness, longsuffering...and above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection" (Colossians 3:12,14).

"Finally, be all of you like-minded, compassionate, loving as brethren, tenderhearted, humble-minded (1 Peter 3:8).


Does Your Speaking Show Humility?

"Do nothing through faction or vainglory, but in lowliness of mind, let each count the other as better than himself" (Philippians 2:3).

"Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought to think....In love of the brethren be tenderly affectionate one to another; in honor preferring one another" (Romans 12:3, 10).

"With all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2).


Do You Speak Carelessly?

"He who guards his mouth keeps his life, but he who opens wide his lips shall have destruction" (Proverbs 13:3).

"The heart of the righteous studies how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things" (Proverbs 15:28).

"Whosoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps his soul from troubles" (Proverbs 21:23).

"See a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him" (Proverbs 29:20).

"If any man thinks himself to be religious and does not bridle his tongue, he deceives himself and this man's religion is vain" (James 1:26).

"He who would love life and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil and his lips that they speak no guile" (1 Peter 3:10).


Do You Choose Your Words Cautiously and Fairly, or Do You Press into Service Provocative (Emotive) and Unqualified (Categorical) Expressions?

" I say unto you that...whoever shall say to his brother "Raca" [a term of contempt] shall be in danger of the council, and whoever shall say "You fool" shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matthew 5:22).

"I said in my haste, ‘All men are liars’" (Psalm 116:11).

[When we oversimplify and lump together the righteous and unrighteous under one condemning rubric, note:] "He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord" (Proverbs 17:15).

"Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth, but such as is good for edifying as the need may be, that it may give grace to them that hear" (Ephesians 4:29).

"Let us follow after things which make for peace and things whereby we may edify one another" (Romans 14:19).

"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in network of silver. As an earring of gold and an ornament of fine gold is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear" (Proverbs 25:11-12).

"The tongue of the righteous is as choice silver.... The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable, but the mouth of the wicked speaks perverseness" (Proverbs 10:20,32).

"A man has joy in the answer of his mouth, and a word in due season, how good it is!" (Proverbs 15:23)

"The mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life, but violence covers the mouth of the wicked" (Proverbs 10:11).

"A grievous word stirs up anger...the mouth of fools pours forth folly" (Proverbs 15:1,2).


Do You Gossip or Publicly Discredit People?

"You shall not go up and down as a talebearer among your people" (Leviticus 19:16).

"Who shall dwell with Jehovah?... He who slanders not with his tongue...nor takes up a reproach against his neighbor" (Psalm 15:3).

"And withal they learn also to be idle, going about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not" (1 Timothy 5:13).

"He who utters a slander is a fool" (Proverbs 10:18).

"The mouth of the wicked and the mouth of deceit have they opened against me.... They have compassed me about also with words of hatred and fought against me without a cause" (Psalm 109:2,3).

"Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking guile" (Psalm 34:13; 1 Peter 3:10).

"Let all bitterness...clamor and railing be put away from you, with all malice" (Ephesians 4:31).

"Put them in mind...to speak evil of no man, not to be contentious, to be gentle, showing all gentleness toward all men" (Titus 3:1-2).

[Whisperers and backbiters are condemned: Psalm 101:5; Romans 1:29,30; 2 Corinthians 12:20] "The north wind drives away rain, so does an angry countenance a backbiting tongue" (Proverbs 25:23).


Do You Publicly Criticize People Before First Speaking with Them and Seeking Their Restoration?

"He who gives an answer before he hears, it is folly and shame to him.... He who pleads his cause first seems just, but his neighbor comes and searches him out" (Proverbs 18:13, 17).

"Go not hastily to strive, lest you know not what to do in the end thereof, when your neighbor has put you to shame. Debate your cause with your neighbor himself, and disclose not the secret of another, lest he who hears it revile thee and your infamy turn not away" (Proverbs 25:8-10).

"Brethren, even if a man be overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness.... Bear one another’s burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:1-2).

"My brethren, if any among you err from the truth and one convert him, let him know that he who converts a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall cover a multitude of sins" (James 5:19-20).

"Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth, but such as is good for edifying as the need may be, that it may give grace to them who hear" (Ephesians 4:29; cf. Romans 14:19).

"And if your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone; if he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not hear you, take with you one or two more, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it unto the church" (Matthew 18:15-17).


Do You Speak with Sensitivity, the Way You Would Have Others Speak of You?

[See preceding passages about kindness, humility, and gentleness: for instance, 1 Peter 3:8; Ephesians 4:32; Titus 3:2; Romans 12:10]

"If there is therefore any exhortation in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tender mercies and compassions, make full my joy that you be of the same mind, having the same love, being of one accord" (Philippians 2:1-2).

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 19:19; Romans 13:9).

"For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Galatians 5:14).

"All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do unto you, even so do also unto them, for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12).


Do You Exemplify the Very Things for Which You Criticize Others?

" Judge not that you be not judged. For by the same standard you judge, you shall be judged; and with the measure you mete it out, it shall be meted out to you.... You hypocrite, first cast out the beam in your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to cast out the speck from your brother’s eye" (Matthew 7:1-5).

"Therefore you are without excuse, O man, whosoever you are who judges. For in that very thing you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who who judges practices the same things" (Romans 2:1).


Do Your Words about Others Amount to Humiliation or Mockery?

" With his mouth the godless man destroys his neighbor" (Proverbs 11:9).
"A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness therein is a breaking of the spirit" (Proverbs 15:4).

"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you not be consumed of one another" (Galatians 5:15).

[Examples of the sin of mockery: Genesis 21:9 with Galatians 4:29; Psalm 35:16, 21; Matthew 27:24]

[The opposite of humiliating words is commended: Proverbs 16:21, 24; 27:9, and preceding passages about kindness, sensitivity, etc.]


Do You Later Try to Evade Responsibility for Your Words

"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.... And I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment; for by your words you shall be justified and by your words you shall be condemned" (Matthew 12:34b, 36-37).

"As a madman who casts firebrands and deadly arrows, so is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, ‘I was only kidding’" (Proverbs 26:18-19).
"He who covers his transgressions shall not prosper, but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall obtain mercy" (Proverbs 28:13).

"Yet you say ‘I am innocent....’ Surely I will enter into judgment with you because you say ‘I have not sinned’" (Jeremiah 2:35).

[Examples of attempting to evade responsibility and making excuses: Proverbs 30:20; Genesis 3:12-13; 4:9; Matthew 27:24; Luke 14:18]

Are You Always Careful to Tell the Truth When You Speak?

"A man who bears false witness against his neighbor is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow" (Proverbs 25:18).

"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (Exodus 20:16; Deuteronomy 5:20; Matthew 19:18).

"For out of the heart come forth evil thoughts...false witness, railings: these are the things which defile the man" (Matthew 15:19-20).

"You shall not take up a false report; put not your hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness" (Exodus 23:1).

"You shall not...lie one to another" (Leviticus 19:11).

"Wherefore, putting away falsehood, speak the truth each one with his neighbor, for we are members one of another" (Ephesians 4:25).

"Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his doings" (Colossians 3:9).

"There are six things which Jehovah hates, yes seven which are an abomination to Him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue...a false witness who utters lies" (Proverbs 6:16-19).

"He who utters truth shows forth righteousness, but a false witness deceit.... The lip of truth shall be established forever, but a lying tongue is but for a moment" (Proverbs 12:17, 19).

"Be not a witness against your neighbor without cause, and deceive not with your lips" (Proverbs 24:28).

"A false witness shall not go unpunished, and he who utters lies shall perish" (Proverbs 19:9; cf. 21:28).

[The mouths of unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, must be stopped by strong reproof (Titus 1:10-13).

"But for...all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).


Do You Keep the Promises that You Make?

[Who shall dwell with the Lord?] "He who swears to his own hurt and changes not" (Psalm 15:4).

[Among those who stand condemned by God are covenant-breakers (Romans 1:31; 2 Timothy 3:3).


Does Your Mouth Use Coarse Humor or Foolish Jesting?

"But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you as becomes saints: nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, or jesting, which are not befitting (Ephesians 5:3-4).

"Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth" (Ephesians 4:29).

"Put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, railing, shameful speaking out of your mouth" (Colossians 3:8).

"Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report: if there be any virtue, and if there be anything praiseworthy, think on these things" (Philippians 4:8).


Do You Use Words to Boast or Flatter Yourself?

"The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips and the tongue that speaks proud things" (Psalm 12:3).

"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters" (2 Timothy 3:2).

"Be not wise in your own conceits" (Romans 12:16).

"I hate pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverted mouth" (Proverbs 8:13).

"Do not think more highly of yourself than you ought to think" (Romans 12:3).

"Let another praise you and not your own mouth—a stranger and not your own lips" (Proverbs 27:2).


Does Your Conversation Use God’s Name Taken in Vain?

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain (Exodus 20:7; Deuteronomy 5:11).

"After this manner are you to pray: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name" (Matthew 6:9).

[This requires that we reverence all of God's titles, attributes, works, etc.:] "Give unto the Lord the glory due unto His name; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness" (Psalm 29:2).

"O Lord our Lord, how excellent is your name in all the earth" (Psalm 7:1).

"Swear not at all, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God; nor by earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King; neither by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black" (Matthew 5:34-36).

[It also requires that we profess the name of Christ and praise Him:] "If you shall confess with your mouth Jesus as the Lord, and shall believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.... Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:9,13).

"No man speaking in the Spirit of God says ‘Jesus is anathema,’ and no man can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ but by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3).

"Through Him, then, let us offer up a sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of lips which make confession to His name" (Hebrews 13:15).

[This entails that all of our speaking must be pleasing to God:] "And whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Colossians 3:17).

[We must not dishonor our profession of His name by our behavior:] "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you" (Romans 2:24).

"Let your lifestyle [conduct] be such as becomes the gospel of Christ" (Philippians 1:27).

If anything at all, we ought to be given pause when we speak carelessly and use profanity, when the exact same point we're trying to get across can be adequately and more effectively made with the employment of non-offensive language. Conversation that's seasoned with salt (in the preservative and flavoring sense).

I don't know about the hearts of any of you, but this is something which I know I need constant work on. And my awareness of it (sadly so) has only been heightened by the presence of my little girl when she's around.

Look, Friends, those of you who want to disparage us old prudes, etc. because we're old fashioned, doesn't mean that the only reason we believe such things is because it's old fashioned. Bad language, and poor use of acceptable language, has been around since the Fall. Let's not fool ourselves. The use of profanity, in whatever culture one finds himself, is ubiquitous and ubiquitously wrong.

Thank you, from one old fuddy duddy to another.

And let me tell you, the weight of my own tongue is heavy. Whenever I ask the boys why there's **** all over their room, I go back upstairs and think: "Hey, I'll betcha I'm going to hear that again later..." And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

(That's ****, rhyming with trap.)

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

Look, Friends, those of you who want to disparage us old prudes, etc. because we're old fashioned, doesn't mean that the only reason we believe such things is because it's old fashioned. Bad language, and poor use of acceptable language, has been around since the Fall. Let's not fool ourselves. The use of profanity, in whatever culture one finds himself, is ubiquitous and ubiquitously wrong.

Thank you, from one old fuddy duddy to another.

And let me tell you, the weight of my own tongue is heavy. Whenever I ask the boys why there's **** all over their room, I go back upstairs and think: "Hey, I'll betcha I'm going to hear that again later..." And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

(That's ****, rhyming with trap.)

Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking of a word more in touch with my Anglo-Saxon roots.

I'd rather be though of as old fashion than to try to be one of the cool kids with a filthy mouth. Now, if I could always just act accordingly.

Vulgar and profane speech is a sign of limited vocabulary and weak intellect. One should be able to get their point across without being crass.

I work in the construction industry, and have to guard myself against "talking like one of the boys". If I heard talk like that coming from the pulpit, I would walk out and never come back.

Translating the Scripture into the vulgar tongue of a people is a very good thing and can be done in a plain and "clean" manner.

Let's not let any folks who use profanity to limit our efforts in always presenting the Gospel in plain, accurate, understandable and meaningful language for a target people. Their understanding is already darkened, so let us try not to add any darkness by keeping our language obscure and archaic in the name of keeping it "holy."

I do hope that we avoid the "profane" - which is sinful, even while making sure our language is "vulgar" - or common - in that the pastor preaches and prays using words and expressions commonly expressed among the people to whom they are ministering.

Ephesians 4:29
29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

The Westminster Larger Catechism summarizes the doctrine of Scripture to say some sins are "aggravated" (worse) because, among other things, they affect more people, are done under pretense of authority, in greater presence of grace, etc.

All these are violated, and make it aggravated when a church leader uses cursing, swearing language as part of an authoritative act such as preaching. It ought to be subject of church discipline, as appropriate for aggravated sin.

Recently, the long-time Pastor of our President was shown on video and audio repeatedly taking our Lord's Name in vain- from the pulpit. Brazenly, repeatedly cursed God from the pulpit.

Exodus 20:7 (King James Version)

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

My first reaction was, where is the church discipline on this?

Why did the members of his congregation not demand it, let alone its leaders?

Why was there no official denunciation from his church, made public?

Why didn't other churches in that denomination demand it?

Imagine the irony- the FCC broadcast guidelines held a higher standard than apparently the Pastor, the leaders of his church, the members, and those related to it with influence.

A brazen act of cursing the Lord, from the pulpit, repeatedly by one who would presume our Lord's authority to teach and disciple His people, disseminated publicly to believer and nonbeliever alike, and without concern or remedy, apparently.

Two weeks ago, I did 72 hours of prison ministry. I don't remember hearing any of the inmates swear or use any kind of profanity. They were probably cleaning it up for our behalf, but that's ok from my perspective.
My wife and I pray Psalm 141:3 on a regular basis and knowing it or not, these men were concerned about perception and decency and we're doing the same thing, maybe even knowingly, considering their knowledge of scripture.
I see no reason why we should lower our standards to try and be more worldly, Especially from our pulpits.

Originally Posted by tt1106

Two weeks ago, I did 72 hours of prison ministry. I don't remember hearing any of the inmates swear or use any kind of profanity. They were probably cleaning it up for our behalf, but that's ok from my perspective.
My wife and I pray Psalm 141:3 on a regular basis and knowing it or not, these men were concerned about perception and decency and we're doing the same thing, maybe even knowingly, considering their knowledge of scripture.
I see no reason why we should lower our standards to try and be more worldly, Especially from our pulpits.

that is a great point... and the way it should be
the light we give people, the Light we represent...
should cause sinners to want to "clean up their act" in our presence.
even hardened criminals know that profanity has NO PLACE in the house of God, or in expounding His word

I like this quote that LawrenceU shared from a few years back:

The use of profanity by a man is inversely proportional to the adequacy of his vocabulary.

Originally Posted by Joshua

I like this quote that LawrenceU shared from a few years back:

The use of profanity by a man is inversely proportional to the adequacy of his vocabulary.

This is simply not true. The repetitious use of ANY word indicates inadequate vocabulary. The usage of profanity actually adds to your repertoire of words...just don't abuse it and know when to use it.

For example:

The American Vision Collision with Pietism

Originally Posted by Southern Twang

Originally Posted by Joshua

I like this quote that LawrenceU shared from a few years back:

The use of profanity by a man is inversely proportional to the adequacy of his vocabulary.

This is simply not true. The repetitious use of ANY word indicates inadequate vocabulary. The usage of profanity actually adds to your repertoire of words...just don't abuse it and know when to use it.

For example:

The American Vision Collision with Pietism

just curious as to when is the appropriate time to use profanity?

Whatever. I'm tired of the "Pietism" accusations thrown against those who are not Pietists (moralists, perfectionists, etc.), but really do think that biblical piety is not only to be desired, but is demanded and required by God, and is a result of justification.

This is classic "end justifying the means" and shows a deep distrust in the fact that it is God, and God only who illuminates his Word.

I appreciate Driscoll's convictions on much, but thought this might lighten up the thread a bit.

But I'm partial to Crystal Louisiana style myself!

Whatever. I'm tired of the "Pietism" accusations thrown against those who are not Pietists (moralists, perfectionists, etc.), but really do think that biblical piety is not only to be desired, but is demanded and required by God, and is a result of justification.

Ah! (breathes a happy sigh)

We love to quote Puritans, but nobody seems to want to live like them. I think most of us could do with a good deal more biblical piety in our lives.

Johnny Mac has a podcast on the GTY web site called the case against the R-Rated church Radio Archive.