Thread: PCA General Assembly in Dallas

Originally Posted by NaphtaliPress

They don't seem to be following the published schedule. Will overtures continue after lunch?

Yes, Rev. Greco was giving the Overtures report when at noon, orders of the day were called. We should be resuming in 3 minutes.

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Yes, why is it so far ahead? Bills & Overtures wasn't supposed to start reporting until 1 at least (according to what I've heard) and the online schedule said 4:05pm for the start.

That schedule was a prediction. Some of the earlier reports went faster than predicted. When they finish with one thing, they go to the next.

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

so am i to understand right now vis a vis #9, the only thing that has happened is the rationale for the overture has been modified?

I don't understand the question. The rationale was set in stone by vote of the full committee day before yesterday evening around 4:45, as I recall.

It is a curiosity of recent PCA GA procedures that overtures cannot be amended on the floor of GA now.

We are opening in prayer again.

On the upcoming debate over the majority and minority reports on Overture 9, the only choices the assembly has, as I understand it, are to vote one of them up, both of them down, or recommit one or both to them to the Overtures Committee.

I.e., they cannot be amended on the floor.

The thinking being, as I understand it, the floor is too large and unwieldy to do intricate amendments, and such things are better done in committees who can hammer them out ahead of time with due reflection, and, I suppose, time to correct disastrous mistakes through emergency meetings before being implemented.

An order of the day, the Report of the Nominating Committee, is being taken now.

45 of the 77 or 78 presbyteries were represented on this committee.

There was a lot of competition for some of the committee slots, and very little on others.

All uncontested nominees are proposed for omnibus approval.

Question about taking a 1-year sabbatical.

Votes on committee recommendations vs. floor nominees proceeds.

Most, if not all, of the nominating committee's recommendations were elected.

The members of the SJC are being called forward.

This is reported as a special order of the day as well.

The moderator is administering the oath to all SJC members now.

The Moderator prayed for the SJC.

MSP to declare them installed.

Coming back to the report of the Overtures Committee now.

Majority Report on Overture 9 is now being given by Rev. Greco.

Bryan Chapell moved the Minority Report.

Joey Pipa moved to find the Minority report out of order.

CTS vs. GPTS

Originally Posted by HaigLaw

Joey Pipa moved to find the Minority report out of order.

and he has an excellent point

Ground of point of order -- study committees are not used for things that are unambiguous.

Moderator consults on the point of order.

I can feel the tension here.

Moderator rules that the objection is not well taken, because the minority report asks an opinion on several issues.

Chair's decision appealed.

Vote on appeal of the chair -- standing vote

Standing votes to sustain the chair's ruling counted.

Votes to overrule the chair are being counted.

How close does it look?

The vote to sustain the chair was 518
Votes to overrule the chair were 369

Majority report:

47 to 33 -- TEs to REs on the committee.

5 - 1/2 hours discussed on this issue.

Not a new issue, wide range of material already available.

A study committee would inevitably lead to two excellent, strong reports.

That would lead to further division.

The committee was most heated on this issue.

Other avenues are open to approach this issue.

BCO amendment and references are those avenues.

Now is not the time to raise another controversy in the PCA.

BCO amendment and references are those avenues.

Now is not the time to raise another controversy in the PCA.

Bryan Chapell begins the minority presentation, which I will summarize as he speaks:

We had a great chair. Ovation. Great debate, sometimes testy and some apologies.

Reference p. 137 - the minority report members, a large group, not all in favor of women deacons. Reads part of the minority report -- need a balance, reads 4 proposed names, 2 of which favor, and 2 opposed, no egalitarians, on women deacons. Summarizes the 4 positions.

Summarizes some of the various approaches on deaconnesses, ordained or not.

Reads the mandate proposed for the study committee.

What does the Scripture say? Not public opinion.

What changes to the BCO might be considered for future presbytery overtures?

Offer pastoral advice to presbyteries.

Funded through designated gifts through administrative committee.

A hard decision. Both reports are good reports.

The majority could have said no, but were sensitive, this needs to be discussed, but sthere are better ways. Accommodating and good language. Presbyteries work through these in their local context. Don't squash all commentary. There is a better way than Overture 9.

Why I prefer the minority report? Both boil down to -- have a study committee or not.

Appreciate the majority committee, discuss it yes, but the minority says yes, have a study committee. People of different opinions in the same room.

Why not talk? Slippery slope. Nobody is arguing for women in authoritative office. Solely as a service office. No slippery slope.

Those who disagree have already left.

Other reason -- want status quo. Some are operating in the margins, not to talk either.

Is is a waste of money -- how will the PCA practice church life together, has not been discussed for centuries.

Both report recognize overtures are coming.

Study committee could give us good guidance, regardless of the position you take.

They have the church's respect. At least 3 of them are very good friends.

Ask the moderator to nominate a few more. Suggest give the 4th vote on the committee to one who sticks with the constitution as it is now.

Dr. Chapell concludes.