Intelligent Life Elswhere?

kevin.carroll · #1 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 03:00 PM

I thought this might be an enjoyable (and stimulating) departure from some of the other topics: Do you think that there is intelligent (non-divine/angelic!) life elsewhere in the universe? Why or why not? I've heard interesting arguments on both sides...

Poimen · #2 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 03:04 PM

No because unicorns can hide in the asteroid belt when I am looking for them...

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by poimen]

BobVigneault · #3 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 04:01 PM

Oh, the universe, I thought you mean't anywhere besides the Puritan Board. No there isn't.

kevin.carroll · #4 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maxdetail
Oh, the universe, I thought you mean't anywhere besides the Puritan Board. No there isn't.

Any particular reason you are so sure?

sastark · #5 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 05:16 PM

No. Because when you apply the Regulative Principle to Theonomy, then factor in the Biblical Principles of Economics, you are left with a non-subscriptionist standing.

:bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile:

Quote:

an enjoyable (and stimulating) departure from some of the other topics

kevin.carroll · #6 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sastark
No. Because when you apply the Regulative Principle to Theonomy, then factor in the Biblical Principles of Economics, you are left with a non-subscriptionist standing.

:bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile:

Quote:

an enjoyable (and stimulating) departure from some of the other topics

Seriously, though, I can't think of an unassailable reason to not allow for the possibility.

JohnV · #7 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 05:35 PM

I don't know why you are worried about intelligent life elsewhere when we have enough to wonder about intelligent life here.

No, I don't believe that there is. I think the biggest argument against intelligent life elsewhere is that Christ came to this planet in God's eternal decree of salvation. That puts this planet in a very important position. Not even the angels received this kind of favour. So we would have to think of an equally favourable situation for another planet if there are "image-bearers" on other planets. After all, that is the ultimate question: not whether there is intelligent life elsewhere, but whether there are image-bearers of God elsewhere.

kevin.carroll · #8 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnV
I don't know why you are worried about intelligent life elsewhere when we have enough to wonder about intelligent life here.

No, I don't believe that there is. I think the biggest argument against intelligent life elsewhere is that Christ came to this planet in God's eternal decree of salvation. That puts this planet in a very important position. Not even the angels received this kind of favour. So we would have to think of an equally favourable situation for another planet if there are "image-bearers" on other planets. After all, that is the ultimate question: not whether there is intelligent life elsewhere, but whether there are image-bearers of God elsewhere.

A question which, ultimately, I guess we don't know the answer to. But it is an interesting way of approaching the question, I'll admit.

Robin · #9 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 05:54 PM

Well, first, before I take the trouble to reflect theologically....

I met a scientist from JPL once. She (yes, she) had two Ph.ds, made the cut for astronaut on the shuttle; designed the Jupiter probe; and (of course) studied the universe on a regular-technical basis.

I just had to ask if "she and the boys" (meaning all the behind the scenes scholars - never mentioned on the 5 O'clock News) had any inkling at all if there really was serious evidence for life outside earth? Unanimously she and her colleagues agreed: No way. There is no evidence; no patterns pointing to a possibility, Etc. In fact, she continued, that the more research done, the more they know for sure - life on earth is utterly unique. And THIS was the thing that vexed, exhausted and depressed her. She had varioius, personally-invented equations to what the alternative answer could be, noting that there must be an intelligent designer of some sort. Despairing, thus far, and during our casual exchange, she asked me what my thoughts were about WHO might have created the universe? (She had noted design patterns shared in the galaxies and biology.) This brought about a fascinating conversation.)

Meanwhile, she further explained that the media hub-bub is about book sales; fame; fortune; power in the scientific community. "The Emperor has no clothes." Groups like SETI easily attain government funding -- and this is job security, of course.

JPL is Jet Propulsion Labs, Pasadena - NASA research group.

Robin

PuritanCovenanter · #10 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 09:42 PM

I heard a guest on Art Bell (Coast to Coast) say there is life on Mars. They are supper humans who weren't affected by the fall. Then some Charismaniacs also called in to comfirm this belief that there is life on mars.

JohnV · #11 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 10:19 PM

I read that C.S. LEwis book too.

knight4christ8 · #12 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I heard a guest on Art Bell (Coast to Coast) say there is life on Mars. They are supper humans who weren't affected by the fall. Then some Charismaniacs also called in to comfirm this belief that there is life on mars.

IMPOSSIBLE! So, let me get this - they would be unfallen super humans living in a cursed universe. Natural evil would surround them by no fault of their own. They would just have to deal with it. Sounds like some bad theology right there.

If there is . . . they certainly are not human (i.e. rational beings)!

Augusta · #13 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnV
I read that C.S. LEwis book too.

Robin · #14 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 11:30 PM

Anybody read: "Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men" by Hugh Ross & Ken Samples?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...1576832082/qid

Robin

turmeric · #15 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I heard a guest on Art Bell (Coast to Coast) say there is life on Mars. They are supper humans who weren't affected by the fall. Then some Charismaniacs also called in to comfirm this belief that there is life on mars.

They aren't fallen, but they're Charismatic?

WrittenFromUtopia · #16 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 12:25 AM

Am I the only one that laughed at Manata's joke?

BobVigneault · #17 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 08:55 AM

If we discovered alien life on other planets but they didn't baptize their babies, would the paedos still consider them intelligent. Hmmmmmmmmm?

kevin.carroll · #18 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paul manata
maybe. My opinion is that there isn't, but I see no Scriptural support for being dogmatic here. I wouldn't want the Church embarrassed like when we said the earth was the center of the universe, etc. So, we shouldn't be dogmatic where the Bible isn't.

The only thought I had was that if one could show that God only made men in his image, then since rationality is part of God's immage, there may be alien life but not rational life, elsewhere. (Or, I guess there could be men elsewhere.)

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by paul manata]

I guess this is essentially my position too. IGod certainly could put His image on other creatures. I don't honestly know how much help the Bible is on this subject since it deals with this world only. Anyone ever read Perilandra?

kevin.carroll · #19 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I heard a guest on Art Bell (Coast to Coast) say there is life on Mars. They are supper humans who weren't affected by the fall. Then some Charismaniacs also called in to comfirm this belief that there is life on mars.

I used to listen to him. He is more out there than Fox Mulder!

kevin.carroll · #20 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by knight4christ8

Quote:

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I heard a guest on Art Bell (Coast to Coast) say there is life on Mars. They are supper humans who weren't affected by the fall. Then some Charismaniacs also called in to comfirm this belief that there is life on mars.

IMPOSSIBLE! So, let me get this - they would be unfallen super humans living in a cursed universe. Natural evil would surround them by no fault of their own. They would just have to deal with it. Sounds like some bad theology right there.

If there is . . . they certainly are not human (i.e. rational beings)!

Here's a thing to chew on: is the entire universe really cursed? Or just the portion of it that pertains to our condition? The Bible speaks in universal terms, but in places it is clear that the "universe" in view is our world only.

Poimen · #21 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin.carroll

Quote:

Originally posted by knight4christ8

Quote:

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I heard a guest on Art Bell (Coast to Coast) say there is life on Mars. They are supper humans who weren't affected by the fall. Then some Charismaniacs also called in to comfirm this belief that there is life on mars.

IMPOSSIBLE! So, let me get this - they would be unfallen super humans living in a cursed universe. Natural evil would surround them by no fault of their own. They would just have to deal with it. Sounds like some bad theology right there.

If there is . . . they certainly are not human (i.e. rational beings)!

Here's a thing to chew on: is the entire universe really cursed? Or just the portion of it that pertains to our condition? The Bible speaks in universal terms, but in places it is clear that the "universe" in view is our world only.

Would the original readers/hearers of the Scriptures have assumed that theirs was the only inhabited world in the universe? Probably.

kevin.carroll · #22 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poimen

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin.carroll

Quote:

Originally posted by knight4christ8

Quote:

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I heard a guest on Art Bell (Coast to Coast) say there is life on Mars. They are supper humans who weren't affected by the fall. Then some Charismaniacs also called in to comfirm this belief that there is life on mars.

IMPOSSIBLE! So, let me get this - they would be unfallen super humans living in a cursed universe. Natural evil would surround them by no fault of their own. They would just have to deal with it. Sounds like some bad theology right there.

If there is . . . they certainly are not human (i.e. rational beings)!

Here's a thing to chew on: is the entire universe really cursed? Or just the portion of it that pertains to our condition? The Bible speaks in universal terms, but in places it is clear that the "universe" in view is our world only.

Would the original readers/hearers of the Scriptures have assumed that theirs was the only inhabited world in the universe? Probably.

I don't think we know that, but even if they did, it proves nothing. The disciples believed in ghosts. Doesn't mean there are any.

Anton Bruckner · #23 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 03:42 PM

Paul why do you beat up on Vincent Cheung so much?