These are when someone conducts a "mini-sermon" (any members/officers of the church, including women) to the children usually upfront complete with props, etc.

I am curious to know how many PCA church's practice this? Also, does anyone have a problem with this thinking it violate's the Scriptures, The PCA Book of Church Order (BCO), and the WCF.

Does anyone know when this practice started becoming popular and permissible?

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Chris Mangum
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte
student, GPTS
.357 Mangum

He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
~ II Samuel 23:3b

We don't. I have sure seen a lot of them in SBC and Methodist churches though.

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Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
"No matter how far a man goes, he eventually finds out God's already there." John Wayne - the last line in "Chisum"

I cannot recall except for years ago (we certainly have never done it for the last 20 years) when I was in college in Bryan TX (1978-1982) the PCA church I attended had a sermonette that the pastor gave. All the kiddos came up to the front and the pastor sat on the step and talked with them. Al LaCour (sp?) was the pastor.

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Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
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The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

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In my experience, it is usually the foil for the kids' getaway to children's church. They get a watered down summary of the sermon or a chat about the catechism and then off they go.

My father (former OPC pastor) used to do a children's object lesson during the service, but they never sent the kids away afterwards. I don't have a huge problem with the idea, but kids need to be in church for the whole service.

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Brad
Deacon
Redeemer Church
Jackson, MS

I agree with you Brad. Avatar - John Myung?

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Bob Vigneault (Bawb Vēēn-yo)
"We are God's children and He's the Father of all fathers and we need to obey him." Jean-Baptiste Vigneault (5)

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Member of Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

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It is perfectly biblical, as the Apostles demonstarte, to address specific types of people (i.e., children) during his sermon. But to have an entirely seperate one for children in the middle of corporate worship is another story.

Put the Pastor aside for a minute. What if unordained laymen and women were doing the children's "sermon"? It sounds like many aren't opposed to the actual practice but who should be conducting it?

Why the preferential treatment for the kids?

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Chris Mangum
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte
student, GPTS
.357 Mangum

He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
~ II Samuel 23:3b

We do not have a children's sermon/special time. Adults and children are present for the same format.

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Matthew
Free Grace Church
British Columbia, Canada

"The most important thing in communication is to hear what isn't being said. "
-Peter Drucker

I'm not sure I'd call it preferential treatment. The adults can learn from the children's lesson too (I know of adults who told my dad as much). If you are not removing the children from the means of grace, I don't have so much of a problem "adding" a specific section of worship for their understanding (not sure why the placement is such a hang up). Jesus made time for children in his ministry, and at the very least it shows a dedication to the instruction of the young. Not that I'm advocating it's inclusion...

Laymen probably shouldn't be teaching it. I don't have a real basis for that opinion, but that is my natural reaction to the idea. Those permitted by scripture to exhort and teach should teach it (I'm assuming teaching and ruling elders).


Yep. Who is the creepy guy sneeking up in your avatar? That other guy is gonna freak out and spew his coffee everywhere! :P

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Brad
Deacon
Redeemer Church
Jackson, MS

Actually, the children's sermon at my church has more depth and substance than the the regular sermon. .

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Ryan
1689 London Baptist Confession

I attended a "conservative" PC(USA) where the practice of having the children come forward for a brief "children's sermon" began in the early 1970's. So it's been around for nearly a generation.

In the Presbyterian Reformed Church the whole congregation - men, women, and covenant children - attend the entire Worship Service. Parents begin training their children from "Day 1" to sit through. (With the newborns and infants they might occasionally have to step out into the hall). It is remarkable what our children really are capable of.

Here in Charlotte, this includes the Christian Education hour (precedes services) as well. Pastor occasionally addresses the children specifically as a matter of course during the lecture (Christian Ed.) or sermon.

I believe the practice of requiring the presence of the entire covenant family to be grounded in Scriptural precedent.

Cheers,
Jay

[Edited on 6-22-2006 by jaybird0827]

__________________
~Jay~
Husband of ENS, father of J II. | Indian Trail, NC
Substitute Teacher
Communicant Member, Precentor | Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte, NC | Presbyterian Reformed Church

Occasionally the pastor will call the children to the front to speak to them in particular at the beginning of his sermon. I don't think there is anything wrong with the practice.

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Scott Roper
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA): "A bunch of hippie Calvinists"
Winston-Salem, NC

Jay, please fix your signature. Click the link in my signature for Sig requirements. Your sig is waaaaay too long.

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Patrick
OPC
MDiv, RTS Jackson.

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.

Patrick,

Thanks for setting me straight, brother. 10-line limit, correct?

Cheers,
Jay

__________________
~Jay~
Husband of ENS, father of J II. | Indian Trail, NC
Substitute Teacher
Communicant Member, Precentor | Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte, NC | Presbyterian Reformed Church