Freemasonry

Scott1 · #41 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?

There is no need to speculate on this, contact Mr Graham's ministry and ask.

The Ninth Commandment and other biblical principles would require we not base or debate this on innuendo.

Matthew1034 · #42 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott1

There is no need to speculate on this, contact Mr Graham's ministry and ask.

The Ninth Commandment and other biblical principles would require we not base or debate this on innuendo.

Are speculation and deceit synonymous? Where do we draw the line?

larryjf · #43 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 08:03 AM

I believe that Billy Graham's ministry has stated that he is NOT nor has ever been a mason.

gene_mingo · #44 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott1

Quote:

Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?

There is no need to speculate on this, contact Mr Graham's ministry and ask.

The Ninth Commandment and other biblical principles would require we not base or debate this on innuendo.

Like I said previously this has been done.

here is the info from the masons mouth:
Sec. 3, Anti-masonry Frequently Asked Questions

Quote:

Billy Graham?
The Reverend Billy Graham is not a freemason. The following correspondence to a reader of the Cutting Edge Ministry makes this very clear:
Subject: Freemason
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 11:23:21 -0500
From: dkinde@graham-assn.org (Don Kinde)
Thank you for your e-mail message. We understand your concern about rumors that Mr. Graham is in some way associated with Freemasonry. The reports are erroneous — though we continue to hear them. Mr. Graham is not, has not been and does not expect ever to be involved in Freemasonry. Your help in keeping the record as accurate as possible would be much appreciated.
Sincerely,
Don Kinde
Christian Guidance Department
Billy Graham Evangelistic Association
One possible source of this rumour was Composite Lodge No. 595’s website in Santa Monica, California, USA. The brother maintaining the site reproduced a list of famous freemasons that mistakenly included the Reverend Billy Graham’s name. Once the error was brought to his attention, the list was amended on December 28, 1996. Other masonic websites unwittingly reproduced the list and several years passed before most, if not all of them, were corrected.
The late Jim Shaw claimed that Billy Graham was present when he was made a 33rd Degree freemason. This is only one of Shaw’s many lies exposed in such publications as Is it True What They Say About Freemasonry?
On 13 June, 1997 anti-mason and fundamentalist Christian, Steve Van Nattan went on a syndicated Christian Fundamentalist radio talk show, "The Cutting Edge," to announce his "proof" that Graham was not only a freemason but that the freemasons were trying to hide his membership. The Cutting Edge Ministry subsequentially accepted the denial issued by Billy Graham’s office.

I am not sure how your evidence points to Billy Grahams involvement in masonry Matthew. Roman Catholics are forbidden from join the masonic lodge.

Quote:

Clement XII, In Eminenti, 28 April 1738

This constitution was the first public written attack by the papacy against Masonry. In In Eminenti the principal objections to Freemasonry given were: that it was open to men of all religions; that there were oaths taken; that Masons denied clerical authority, and that Masons met in secret. Pope Clement forbade Masonic membership by Catholics and directed the "Inquisitors of Heretical Depravity" to take action against Catholics who became Masons or assisted Freemasonry in any way. He ordered excommunication as punishment for those who defied his ban.

Benedict XIV, Providas, 18 May 1751

This constitution confirmed In Eminenti and condemned Freemasonry on the grounds of its naturalism, demand for oaths, secrecy, religious indifferentism, possible threat to the church and state. It specifically forbids Roman Catholics from seeking membership in any Masonic group.

Pius VII, Ecclesiam A Jesu Christo, 13 September 1821

The constitution Ecclesiam specifies excommunication for Freemasons and gives as reason for the censure the oath bound secrecy of the society and their conspiracies against the church and state. It also links Freemasonry with the Society of the Carbonari, known as the "Charcoal Burners", who at that time were active in Italy and were believed to be a revolutionary group.

Leo XII, Quo Gravioria Mala, 13 March 1825

This constitution restated the Roman Catholic Church's objection to Freemasonry as a secret society, with oath-bound secrecy, which conspires against church and state.

Pius VIII, Traditi Humilitati, 24 May 1829

This encyclical is considered by some Roman Catholic authorities to be an anti-Masonic polemic. It warned against a secret society whose "cunning purpose is to...lead the students along the path of Baal." It called for Catholics to "...eradicate those secret societies of factious men who, completely opposed to God and to princes, are wholly dedicated to bringing about the fall of the Church, the destruction of kingdoms, and disorder in the whole world." It also makes reference to the anti-Masonic pronouncements of previous popes.

Litteris Altero, 25 March 1830

This apostolic letter reiterated earlier papal condemnations of Freemasonry. It specifically condemns the influence of Freemasonry in education.

Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, 15 August 1832

This was an encyclical on liberalism and religious indifferentism. Religious indifferentism is defined as "... the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained." This encyclical does not mention Masonry, but religious indifferentism is one of the charges often leveled against Freemasonry in papal pronouncements. Some Roman Catholic authorities identify this pronouncement as anti-Masonic.

Pius IX, Qui Pluribus, 9 November 1846

This encyclical calls for Roman Catholics to fight against heresy. It decries those who put human reason above faith, and who believe in human progress. Strangely, it also attacks secret "sects" and "crafty" Bible societies who "force on people of all kinds, even the uneducated, gifts of the Bible." This encyclical also calls "perverse" religious indifferentism. While not mentioning Masonry directly, it criticizes those it does not identify for those same faults that the previous papal pronouncements imputed to Freemasonry, and is regarded as an anti-Masonic pronouncement by some Catholic sources.

.

Quibus Quantisque Malis, 20 April 1849

This pronouncement is referred to by some authorities as anti-Masonic, but is unavailable in English translation.

Quanta Cura, 8 December 1864

This is an Encyclical condemning "current errors", including naturalism. It calls liberty of conscience and worship the "liberty of perdition". It attacks communism and socialism directly, but does not mention Freemasonry. Quanta Cura is referred to by some authorities as an encyclical dealing with Freemasonry. An attack on naturalism is usually understood to be an attack on Freemasonry.

Multiplices Inter, 25 September 1865

This is an address made by Pope Pius IX condemning Freemasonry and other secret societies. In it, he accuses Masonic associations of conspiracy against the church, God and civil society. He further attributes revolutions and uprisings to Masonic activities, and denounces secret oaths, clandestine meetings and Masonic penalties.

Apostolicae Sedis Moderatoni, 12 October 1869

This is a constitution relating to Canon Law. It clarifies the procedure regarding censure in Canon Law, changes some Canons and establishes a new list of censures.Some authorities state the document relates to Freemasonry,but it is unavailable in English translation.

Etsi Multa, 21 November 1873

In the encyclical Etsi Multa, Pope Pius condemned Masonry by stating that Masonic groups were among the "sects" from which "....the synagogue of Satan is formed ...."

Leo XIII, Etsi Nos, 15 February 1882

This papal encyclical speaks about the conditions then prevalent in Italy and refers to a "pernicious sect" at war with Jesus Christ, which sect he blames for civil unrest in Italy.Some Roman Catholic authorities identify this as a reference to Freemasonry.

Humanum Genus, 20 April 1884

The encyclical Humanum Genus is considered to contain one of the most vicious attacks on Freemasonry of any papal pronouncements. It states that "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor a bad tree produce good fruit...the Masonic sect produces fruits that are pernicious and of the bitterest savor." It goes on to say that Freemasonry's goal is the destruction of the Roman Catholic Church, and that Freemasonry and the Roman Catholic Church are adversaries. Pope Leo further stated that many Freemasons are unaware of the ultimate goals of Freemasonry and should not be considered partners in the criminal acts perpetrated by Freemasonry. He also condemns the naturalism of Freemasonry, by which is meant the belief that "human nature and human reason ought in all things to be mistress and guide...they allow no dogma of religion or truth which cannot be understood by the human intelligence, nor any teacher who ought to be believed by reason of his authority." It is interesting to note that Brother Albert Pike stated that this encyclical was a "...declaration of war, and the signal for a crusade, against the rights of man...."

Officio Sanctissimo, 22 December 1887

This is an encyclical epistle concerning Bavaria and includes a warning against Freemasonry. It states that Freemasonry is a "contagion", and is a "sect of darkness".

Dall'Alto Dell'Apostolico Seggio, 15 October 1890

This encyclical, also known as Ab Apostolici, dealt with Freemasonry in Italy. It condemned the contemporary course of public affairs in Italy as the realization of the "Masonic programme". This alleged "programme" was said to involve a "deadly hatred of the Church", the abolition of religious instruction in schools and the absolute independence of civil society from clerical influence.

Inimica Vis, 18 December 1892

This encyclical epistle to the bishops of Italy addresses Freemasonry in Italy. It reiterates the urgent necessity of combating the ends of Freemasonry, and entreats the bishops to work to convert victims of Freemasonry. It complains that some Roman Catholic clergy are entering into or cooperating with Freemasonry.

Custodi di Qualla Fede, 18 December 1892

This is an encyclical epistle to the people of Italy attacking Freemasonry. It tells how to work against Freemasonry in ways such as guarding Catholic homes against infiltration, setting up Catholic schools and mutual aid societies, and establishing a Catholic press. It contains virulent criticism of Freemasonry.

Praeclara, 20 June 1894

Praeclara is an apostolic letter to the rulers and nations of the world which calls for union with the church of Rome, and which warns against Freemasonry.

Annum Ingressi, 18 March 1902

Annum Ingressi is an apostolic epistle to the bishops of the world reviewing the 25 years of his pontificate. It also urges resistance to Freemasonry.

I have seen many discussion about freemasonry fall apart because of false claims about who were members.

JBaldwin · #45 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 08:29 AM

Someone mentioned earlier that you had to be asked to be freemason. Around here, apparently, they ask you, because I know several individuals who have been asked to be freemasons. One man that we know was being considered for a deacon in his church (Baptist). He was then told that if wanted to actually become a deacon, he would also have to join the freemasons.

I am constantly shocked at how prevelent freemasonry is in South Carolina. No one talks about it, but even in the smallest towns where there is nothing but a post office and store, there is also a masonic lodge. I am also surprised at how many pastors and church leaders are wearing masonic rings or have the masonic symbol on their cars.

JM · #46 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnGill

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

That's interesting...you're not supposed to be "invited" to become a freemason. They can give you material, but they are supposed to wait for you to ask them to join.

I was told that when in a freemason meeting you are not allowed to mention Jesus...that's enough for me. If they don't want my Savior they don't want me.

I was asked to join as well. My grandfather was a freemason. I've heard some wild stories about it and don't really care to join.

My great grandfather and uncles were masons, maybe that's why I've been asked to join.

larryjf · #47 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 08:49 AM

From To Be One Ask One* WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN

Quote:

WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN?

NO! Hopefully, if the concepts and principles of Masonry as enumerated in this folder interest you, you will not need to be asked to join. You must ask to become a Freemason. Unfortunately, many men who would like to become Masons never do because they are unaware of the above-mentioned requirement (that it be of your own free will and accord, and you must ask to join the Fraternity).

From WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY

Quote:

WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY?

You may be surprised to know that the friend who asked you to read this literature WILL NOT ASK YOU TO PETITION THE MASONIC FRA*TERNITY FOR MEMBERSHIP. Contrary to popu*lar belief, membership in Freemasonry is not by invitation. Instead, if you seek membership, you must do so on your own initiative by making your wishes known to a member of the fraternity

From How Do You Become A Freemason?

Quote:

The true behind joining Freemasonry is that to join you must first ask. No person should ever been asked to join Freemasonry, the first step should be made by the person interested in joining.

Scott1 · #48 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 09:12 AM

I realize this post is not about Mr Graham but only to supplement what Mr Mingo has reported. We really need to keep the Ninth Commandment in view here and apply charity, especially toward those in the household of faith, especially toward teaching elders here.

The ministry cephasministry.com (I gather is much opposed to secret fraternities, etc) reports their response to whether Mr Graham is a Mason from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association:

"We have received this response from Don Kinde, answering these three questions; and then Mr. Kinde went a bit further in supplying information. In this response, Don Kinde of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association categorically denied that Mr. Graham was a Freemason. We reprint this email in its entirety."

Quote:

"Dear ----,

Thank you for your e-mail message regarding Freemasonry. My answer was to the question of Dr. Graham's view of and involvement with Freemasonry. I will respond to your three questions:

1. BGEA does not have an official position on Freemasonry. Mr. Graham's response that he is not, has not, and does not expect ever to be involved in Freemasonry is as close to any policy that we have.

2. Freemasons do not have compatible beliefs with fundamental Christianity.

3. We would not suggest that a person take an oath of Freemasonry.

----, let me share a bit more with you for your information. Many Christians do not believe that a Christian should be a member of a secret lodge, and ministers often strongly oppose such membership. At the same time, it must be recognized that there are Christians who are members of lodges. As to the degree of their commitment to Christ as Lord, we would not be able to judge; only the Lord knows the heart.

As we have said, Mr. Graham is not a member of any lodge. Part of his conviction is that a proper fulfillment of one's obligations to the church should fulfill any need that one has for this type of organization. All too often lodges and fraternal organizations compete with the exercise of one's gifts in the church, and take up time that could be more wisely invested in

one's family. If a husband and wife are not in mutual agreement concerning membership in a lodge, a serious rift can occur in their relationship because of the nature of fraternal organizations and involvement with them.

If a lodge or club denies the Triune God, or the deity and atoning sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, or teaches that we can find salvation through our own meritorious good deeds, or interferes in any way with the service of a Christian to his Lord or to his church, that organization should have no appeal for a Christian. We are expected by God to use wisdom in deciding whether or not to be a member of any organization. The Bible says, "If any of you lacks wisdom, 'he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him' (James 1:5)."

"Regarding the issue of beliefs, in A CONCISE DICTIONARY OF CULTS & RELIGIONS

by William Watson (Moody, 1991), the following information about Freemasonry is given:

Also known as Masons and Masonic Lodge. . . . 'Teaches that all religions are one and that there are many gods who are considered equal to Jesus. Masonic literature denies that Jesus is the only savior of the world and rejects Christ's death on the cross as God's sole remedy for sin. Salvation depends on works, not faith in God. The sacred books of many religions are regarded equally as revelations from God. Other helpful books are: MASONS: WHAT THEY BELIEVE by Harold J. Berry and THE FACTS ON THE MASONIC LODGE: DOES MASONRY CONFLICT WITH THE CHRISTIAN FAITH? by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. You may find these at most Christian bookstores. You may also want to contact Free the Masons Ministries, P. O. Box 1077, Issaquah, Washington 98027, for further information."

"May the Lord bless you richly and give you His wisdom and discernment as you share in His kingdom work. We pray that the Lord will enrich your life, filling you with all joy and peace in believing."

"Sincerely,

Don Kinde

Christian Guidance Department

Billy Graham Evangelistic Association"

JM · #49 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

From To Be One Ask One* WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN

Quote:

WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN?

NO! Hopefully, if the concepts and principles of Masonry as enumerated in this folder interest you, you will not need to be asked to join. You must ask to become a Freemason. Unfortunately, many men who would like to become Masons never do because they are unaware of the above-mentioned requirement (that it be of your own free will and accord, and you must ask to join the Fraternity).

From WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY

Quote:

WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY?

You may be surprised to know that the friend who asked you to read this literature WILL NOT ASK YOU TO PETITION THE MASONIC FRA*TERNITY FOR MEMBERSHIP. Contrary to popu*lar belief, membership in Freemasonry is not by invitation. Instead, if you seek membership, you must do so on your own initiative by making your wishes known to a member of the fraternity

From How Do You Become A Freemason?

Quote:

The true behind joining Freemasonry is that to join you must first ask. No person should ever been asked to join Freemasonry, the first step should be made by the person interested in joining.

That's interesting and all but I was asked to join. I was told many things of traditional masonary have changed due to the population getting older and few young people "asking to become one."

DeoOpt · #50 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:37 AM

The Shriners: Allahs Islamic Cult Inside the Masonic Lodge: To most Americans, the Shriners are a wonderful organization. They see men wearing the strange "fez" hat and gleefully riding tiny motor scooters in parades. They see Shriners at circuses dressed as clowns, delighting youngsters. They hear of the boisterous Shriners conventions and are told of the charitable acts of this group—its burns hospitals and so forth. But there is a darker side to the Shriners, and Texe Marrs uncovers it in this revealing investigative expose. You'll learn that the Shriners are Knights Templar, 13th degree York Rite Masons or 32nd degree Scottish Rite Masons. You'll discover the hideous blood oath to a pagan deity taken by these men in a bizarre and occultic initiation rite. You'll discover also the meaning of The Shrine and the significance of the "fez" cap. You'll find out why the elements in the logo, or symbol, of the Shriners include an Arabic curved sword, upside down horns, a pentacle star, and an image of the ancient goddess of Egypt. This audiotape will enlighten you about what goes on behind the closed doors of the Shrine Temples. It will equip you with the knowledge and information you need to unmask this devilish organization and help men who are entrapped in its devilish clutches escape.
Who founded the Shriners? Did this group come out of the spiritualism (necromancy) movement called the "13 Clubs?"
Is the story of Batman and Robin and Gotham City based upon the Shrine Temple's alleged war against "evil-doers?"
Why does every Shriner attest that he is "a noble of the mystic shrine who has traveled the Arabic path?"
Does the red "fez" hat signify the bloody massacre of Christians by Muslim hordes during the crusades?
Can a faithful Christian be a Shriner? Does the Shrine blaspheme the Lord Jesus by honoring a false pagan god and his "prophet?"
What diabolical oath is taken by every Shriner? Does the Shriner pledge loyalty and fealty to Allah and Mohammed? Does he kneel in submission before the Koran, the Muslim scriptures? What disgusting acts does the initiate engage in?
Is there a connection between the Order of the Mystic Shrine and the infamous Illuminati?
What famous men are known to be—or have been—Masons who were initiated into the Order of the Shriners? Do their ranks include the late Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman, former President Gerald Ford, country singer Roy Clark, and the late comedians Red Skelton and Danny Thomas?
How about the Prince Hall Shrine, made up exclusively of Afro-Americans and numbering in its Masonic ranks such men as Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, and band leader Lionel Hampton?
What are the concealed goals of the Shriners and of international Freemasonry?

JM · #51 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:44 AM

From Larry's links:

Quote:

IS FREEMASONRY A RELIGION?

NO! Religion can best teach a man faith, hope, and charity. Freemasonry only endeavors to reinforce these teachings. Masonry is not a religion nor is it a substitute for or a rival of any doctrine. It is an aid to religious development in that it builds character and stresses righteousness. It is significant that many clergymen are active members of the Fraternity. A Mason respects and is tolerant of that which is sacred to his brother, be he Christian, Mohammedan, Jew, or of some other faith in God.

I was given the literature and then asked, "hey, you should join and I'll be your recommend" the first time and even told the membership fee.

Quote:

WHY DID MY FRIEND ASK ME TO READ THIS LITERATURE?

Your friend is a Master Mason and is very proud of the Masonic Fraternity. He is also very proud of the fine character of its members. He sin*cerely believes that you possess the qualities for membership in the Fraternity and that you should, at least, have the opportunity to know more about it.

By taking a few moments to read this litera*ture, you will be better informed about Free*masonry. You will also understand that those who seek membership must do so on their own accord. Unfortunately, without this understand*ing, many fine individuals have not enjoyed the special rewards of membership in Freemasonry.

If, after reading this material, you have any questions or desire to know more about Free*masonry, your friend will be p leased to answer your questions or to obtain the answers for you.

Whether or not you should decide to in*quire about membership in Freemasonry, you can be certain that you have a special friend within the masonic fraternity who thinks very highly of you. Please consider the fact that he shared this literature with you as a message of kindness from FRIEND TO FRIEND!

The second time I was asked to flat out to join.

Quote:

No person should ever been asked to join Freemasonry, the first step should be made by the person interested in joining.

larryjf · #52 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

That's interesting and all but I was asked to join. I was told many things of traditional masonary have changed due to the population getting older and few young people "asking to become one."

Don't get me wrong...i'm not trying to say that you weren't asked. I was also asked to join. It's just that asking folks to join goes against their rules.

pilgrim3970 · #53 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 11:14 AM

My grandad was a 33rd degree mason as well as a Shriner. Shortly before he died, he renounced both and instructed my dad to remove the masonic symbol from his head stone.

JM · #54 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

That's interesting and all but I was asked to join. I was told many things of traditional masonary have changed due to the population getting older and few young people "asking to become one."

Don't get me wrong...i'm not trying to say that you weren't asked. I was also asked to join. It's just that asking folks to join goes against their rules.

I might stop in and get a tour of the building and then witness to them.

jwithnell · #55 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 11:51 AM

Over the years I've pondered anything that might exclude my true brothers and sisters in Christ. I can understand professional associations, and perhaps meritorious organizations, but fraternal ones with secret rites seem way over the top. I first started thinking about this in college with all the sororities and fraternities ....

Thomas2007 · #56 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 02:33 PM

John Quincy Adams has a very good book on Google books about freemasonry entitled "Letters on the Masonic Institution," following the founding era of the country. He was anti-masonic and very vocally opposed the organization, this work is really quite good.

I think most people today have no conception of the organization as a religious cult, they see it as merely a fraternity that espouses good morals and engages in good works. The sad thing, to me, though is that they really do have some good works operating numerous children's hospitals that provide some of the best care for orthopedics and burns in the country - and they are totally free. Why this is sad to me is that these types of works should be done by the Church.

Backwoods Presbyterian · #57 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 02:34 PM

JM · #58 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 02:45 PM

The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.

jwithnell · #59 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 02:49 PM

On the "good works" note, my grandfather was a way-up-there Mason, so my grandmother was able to spend the last years of her life in a wonderful graduated-care facility that looked more like a college campus than a nursing home.

From an historical perspective, I've often wondered how George Washington could so involve himself in the Masons, yet he appears to be an orthodox believer based on the sentiments expressed in his writings.

Brad · #60 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 04:41 PM

If you want to see something interesting about George Washington, Google Earth Mt. Vernon, then scan over to the George Washington Masonic Temple not far away in Alexandria, VA.

He evidently was quite enamored of freemasonry, all inferences of orthodoxy aside. He did attend worship services regularly, but from what I've read, never partook of the sacraments. I thought that a bit strange.

kalawine · #61 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.

Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.

JM · #62 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.

Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.

That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!

Brad · #63 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.

Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.

That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!

Oh man! Now you're gonna have me all paranoid when somebody brings home a bucket....

VirginiaHuguenot · #64 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.

Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.

That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!

So I Married An Axe Murderer:

Quote:

Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went *** up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly...!

Gloria · #65 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 08:51 PM

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Originally Posted by kalawine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew1034

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

I have heard that the SBC has an unusually large number of ministers who are/have been Freemasons. One list cites the following (all with significant documentation):

B.H. Carroll
David E. Moore
George W. Truett
J.B. Lawrence
James C. Bryant
James Huckins
James P. Wesberry
John T. Christian
Joseph Samuel Murrow
L.R. Scarborough
Louie D. Newton
Richard A. McLemore
Robert E. Baylor
W.T. Conner
W.W. Barnes
William R. White
William Tryon
William W. Hamilton

Another source alleges: "A 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs were Masons; it is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership. (A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)."

Evidently there is a cultural component as well. I do not know a single pastor in SoCal who is a Mason.

37% is a heavy number. Perhaps Pergamum or another member with first-hand experience with FM can attest to this, but I know mystery-religion intentionally hides symbolic meaning from initiates, until you increase in degree and are revealed more and more truth.

It is catastrophic that so many SBC pastors are FM, and not to apologia, but what is catastrophic is that freemasonry may in fact be cultural and lower-degree freemason SBC pastors may be ignorant to what (and what god) is really behind the G.

On the idea of culture, my pastor's wife's father was a mason and she was given the title of "eastern star" or something when she was younger although it has no substance for her now.

Its almost as if being raised FM puts your hope and identity in masonic symbolism rather than the cross...

Living just outside of the city of Meridian (the Masonry Capitol of Mississippi) and having attended SBC's here (been a member of a couple in the past) I can attest to the fact that there are many churches here that are overrun with Freemasons and virtually run by them. I could also drive you around this county and show you several SBC's and a couple of Methodists churches that literally have the lodge directly across the road from them... FACING them! You can look at some of them and see very obviously that the same people who built the church buildings built the lodge across the street. Two in particular that come to mind look to have been built from the very same building materials. I could even take you to a "black" church... (Sorry folks ... we still have them here ... not my fault!) ... but I could take you to a "black" church that literally has a steel plaque boasting that the "cornerstone" was placed there by a certain lodge. To my black (Colored? African American?) friends, please don't think I'm picking on you. The two largest and most ancient (one is a historical landmark) graveyards in town ("white" churches) have the Masonic symbols on almost every tombstone! Sometimes I wonder if that isn't the very reason that this old town began to stop growing many years ago.

"Colored"? What year is this?

kalawine · #66 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gloria

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew1034

37% is a heavy number. Perhaps Pergamum or another member with first-hand experience with FM can attest to this, but I know mystery-religion intentionally hides symbolic meaning from initiates, until you increase in degree and are revealed more and more truth.

It is catastrophic that so many SBC pastors are FM, and not to apologia, but what is catastrophic is that freemasonry may in fact be cultural and lower-degree freemason SBC pastors may be ignorant to what (and what god) is really behind the G.

On the idea of culture, my pastor's wife's father was a mason and she was given the title of "eastern star" or something when she was younger although it has no substance for her now.

Its almost as if being raised FM puts your hope and identity in masonic symbolism rather than the cross...

Living just outside of the city of Meridian (the Masonry Capitol of Mississippi) and having attended SBC's here (been a member of a couple in the past) I can attest to the fact that there are many churches here that are overrun with Freemasons and virtually run by them. I could also drive you around this county and show you several SBC's and a couple of Methodists churches that literally have the lodge directly across the road from them... FACING them! You can look at some of them and see very obviously that the same people who built the church buildings built the lodge across the street. Two in particular that come to mind look to have been built from the very same building materials. I could even take you to a "black" church... (Sorry folks ... we still have them here ... not my fault!) ... but I could take you to a "black" church that literally has a steel plaque boasting that the "cornerstone" was placed there by a certain lodge. To my black (Colored? African American?) friends, please don't think I'm picking on you. The two largest and most ancient (one is a historical landmark) graveyards in town ("white" churches) have the Masonic symbols on almost every tombstone! Sometimes I wonder if that isn't the very reason that this old town began to stop growing many years ago.

"Colored"? What year is this?

LOL My point exactly! I've lost touch! What the heck am I supposed to say?

I've already been corrected about "Oriental!" LOL

larryjf · #67 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 09:51 PM

Kalawine,

It's inappropriate to take God's name in vain ...even just the initials.

kalawine · #68 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

Kalawine,

It's inappropriate to take God's name in vain ...even just the initials.

Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.

larryjf · #69 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.

I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.

I appreciate you editing the post.

kalawine · #70 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.

I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.

I appreciate you editing the post.

I was MORE than glad to edit the post and I thank you for pointing my sin to me because that will keep me from using it in the future. I appreciate your boldness and Godliness my dear Brother!

Solus Christus · #71 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.

I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.

I appreciate you editing the post.

I was MORE than glad to edit the post and I thank you for pointing my sin to me because that will keep me from using it in the future. I appreciate your boldness and Godliness my dear Brother!

First off, my apologies for this quick thread-jack but I think it's important to point out this exchange. Both kalawine and larryjf, I commend both of your actions here. Too many times people are guilty of not doing the right thing. Thank you both for this Godly example of behavior. It is times like this that I'm thankful for being part of this Puritanboard community. May God bless you both!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of Freemasonry. Discuss.

kalawine · #72 (**permalink**) 08-26-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Christus

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.

I appreciate you editing the post.

I was MORE than glad to edit the post and I thank you for pointing my sin to me because that will keep me from using it in the future. I appreciate your boldness and Godliness my dear Brother!

First off, my apologies for this quick thread-jack but I think it's important to point out this exchange. Both kalawine and larryjf, I commend both of your actions here. Too many times people are guilty of not doing the right thing. Thank you both for this Godly example of behavior. It is times like this that I'm thankful for being part of this Puritanboard community. May God bless you both!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of Freemasonry. Discuss.

Thank you my Brother! I have been trying lately to maintain a humble attitude. I believe that it is a hard thing for each and every one of us as we are fallen in nature and our first reaction is normally to defend ourselves. Please keep me in your prayers that I will/can continue in my humility. I have also been VERY blessed by my Brother, larryJF, because if he was just an arrogant busy body he could have wallowed as a victor in my sin. Instead he accepted my acceptance of his correction and went on about his way. I believe that is a sign that he was truly correcting me as a brother and not as an arrogant know-it-all who simply wanted to win an argument. I have found myself on many occasions wanting just to win arguments. Thank God for his grace that he is pulling me out of that hole! May he continue in his gift of grace for without it I don't have a chance!

regenerated · #73 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 03:21 AM

I believe freemasonry to be a 'salvation by works' theology.
It is highly motivated by moralistic duties performed with a legalistic attitude.
This facade is masqueraded as a secret religion for the good of their fellow man.

count me OUT.

Give me Christ alone by Grace alone by Faith alone.

R

Zenas · #74 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 09:04 AM

With the general themes in my frat and the themes I have observed in the Masons, I'm beginning to think that all secret fraternities were started by the same guy with an obsession with the Knights Templar and the Crusades.

I bet it's the same guy who wrote National Treasure.

Zenas · #75 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gloria

"Colored"? What year is this?

[oxymoron]I'm colorless because I'm white.[/oxymoron]

Dieter Schneider · #76 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 12:13 PM

Can anyone from the PB you guess from my handshake whether I am a mason?

CDM · #77 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew1034

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

I have heard that the SBC has an unusually large number of ministers who are/have been Freemasons. One list cites the following (all with significant documentation):

B.H. Carroll
David E. Moore
George W. Truett
J.B. Lawrence
James C. Bryant
James Huckins
James P. Wesberry
John T. Christian
Joseph Samuel Murrow
L.R. Scarborough
Louie D. Newton
Richard A. McLemore
Robert E. Baylor
W.T. Conner
W.W. Barnes
William R. White
William Tryon
William W. Hamilton

Another source alleges: "A 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs were Masons; it is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership. (A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)."

Evidently there is a cultural component as well. I do not know a single pastor in SoCal who is a Mason.

37% is a heavy number. Perhaps Pergamum or another member with first-hand experience with FM can attest to this, but I know mystery-religion intentionally hides symbolic meaning from initiates, until you increase in degree and are revealed more and more truth.

[...]

In fact, even the 33 degree Mason is considered a "porch mason" by the "in-the-knows." A "porch mason" is used for the express purpose as a buffer between "real" masons and the general public. The porch masons are those that join because of lodge activities. Most masons fall in this category.

I have not met a Christian, that has done the research I have (I am no expert), and did not absolutely denounce this demonic organization.

jaybird0827 · #78 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter Schneider

Can anyone from the PB you guess from my handshake whether I am a mason?

larryjf · #79 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 03:57 PM

Here's a secret Mason handshake...

Mark 4:22 - For nothing is hidden except to be made manifest; nor is anything secret except to come to light.

Brad · #80 (**permalink**) 08-28-2008, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalawine

Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.

That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!

So I Married An Axe Murderer:

Quote:

Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went *** up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly...!

And just now they come out with the Colonel's Cravin' Filet to bring this conspiracy to its culmination. It is futile to resist.... We will be assimilated.