Does this song teach a false gospel?

shackleton · #1 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 04:11 PM

YouTube - Johnny cash - Personal jesus

Does this song teach a false gospel?
Is he or isn't he? Saved I mean...? People I know are always debating this.

MrMerlin777 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 12:32 PM

I can't say one way or another regarding Johnny Cash's Salvation. God knows.
Personally I believe he was regenerate but then I never met the man.

As far as the song goes it's a remake of an old Depeche Mode tune, and was debated hotly at the time it was released in the 1980s. I don't know what to say about the song really except that it is not really addressing Jesus himself but using him as a metaphor. Personally I think it's is a misuse of the name of God.

As far as what Johnny Cash thought of the song and what his reasons behind recording it were, I cannot say.

caddy · #3 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 02:05 PM

"...pick up the receiver...I'll make you a believer..." hmmm

I agree with the above. Never met the man, and never saw him in concert. Can't say, but from what I have seen in interviews and other things he's done, I tend to think he is regenerate.

Semper Fidelis · #4 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 05:12 PM

It's not completely messed up. The two things I think may reveal a defective view are these:

1. Christ is sort of demoted to "...your own personal Jesus...." For some it communicates an idea that Christ is at our beck and call. He's less an object of worship and a necessity for some than a buddy.

2. I wonder if Cash actually attended Church. Makes faith a very personal rather than something that is believed within the Bride of Christ. In other words: "He who doesn't have the Church for his Mother, does not have God as his Father."

MrMerlin777 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 05:34 PM

[quote=SemperFideles;291256]It's not completely messed up. The two things I think may reveal a defective view are these:

1. Christ is sort of demoted to "...your own personal Jesus...." For some it communicates an idea that Christ is at our beck and call. He's less an object of worship and a necessity for some than a buddy.QUOTE]

I agree that the song does have its positive points and as you said, "It's not completely messed up." I'm pretty sure Cash didn't see the song from this perspective when he recorded it. But, if I remember correctly, the original view of the song is very postmodern. This idea that who or whatever gets you by is "your own personal Jesus". Jesus as a metaphor only with none of the reality of who he is (his deity etc). Of course many songs can have different meanings depending on the perspective the listener approaches it from.

k.seymore · #6 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMerlin777

As far as the song goes it's a remake of an old Depeche Mode tune, and was debated hotly at the time it was released in the 1980s. I don't know what to say about the song really except that it is not really addressing Jesus himself but using him as a metaphor.

Yeah, the song seems to just be one person saying to another that they will listen to them, be there for them, care for them and forgive them. The person is telling the other to put them to the test and see that they will be faithful: "Lift up the receiver, I'll make you a believer... put me to the test." The most questionable lyrics might be "Take second best" which someone might possibly read as saying the author of the song are the next best thing to the actual Jesus. But it seems more likely that the person who is "alone, flesh and bone" has no faithful friend physically there with them, and the singer is stating that a friend to talk to on the phone is the next best thing. Then the author is using Jesus as figure for a friend who faithful even though he is not physically present with someone to emphasize that one can be close without being physically present (a friend on the phone). From what I remember about Depeche Mode's other lyrics, the author definitely isn't Christian, even though he is using Jesus as some standard of what a faithful friend should be. Things I've heard Johnny Cash say, however, lead me to think he may have been. I don't know.

MrMerlin777 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 06:20 PM

Yes, Depeche Mode definitely were not Christian. Their lyrics reveal them to be floundering in postmodernism as are alot of bands.

That said I kinda like their music and some of it even has postitive things to say. People are People for example.

nicnap · #8 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 09:40 PM

I always thought the song was sort of ridiculing that sort of mentality among many American Evangelicals...sort of poking fun of the TV evangelists...maybe I should listen to it again.

beej6 · #9 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 09:57 PM

Most pop music lyrics (>90%) are doggerel. Doesn't mean you can't analyze it, just means that usually there's not much to analyze. Do a search for the lyrics and you'll see for yourself.

JonathanHunt · #10 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 06:23 AM

DId anyone actually enjoy that? That was the most painful exhibition of 'singing' I have ever heard. If that is Cash's voice, I have no idea why he became famous.

caddy · #11 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 07:45 AM

No, but keep in mind that Cash is an old man here. This song was sung not far from his death. Cash was not a bad singer in his prime, but obviously he's not for everybody. He's sort of a Country/Folksy type singer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

DId anyone actually enjoy that? That was the most painful exhibition of 'singing' I have ever heard. If that is Cash's voice, I have no idea why he became famous.

Semper Fidelis · #12 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

DId anyone actually enjoy that? That was the most painful exhibition of 'singing' I have ever heard. If that is Cash's voice, I have no idea why he became famous.

Probably because the song is pretty cool. The guy may not have been able to sing but he pioneered a lot of new sounds.

I prefer his voice to Bob Dillon's.

MrMerlin777 · #13 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Probably because the song is pretty cool. The guy may not have been able to sing but he pioneered a lot of new sounds.

I prefer his voice to Bob Dillon's.

Actually, I kinda like Bob Dylan too.

BobVigneault · #14 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

DId anyone actually enjoy that? That was the most painful exhibition of 'singing' I have ever heard. If that is Cash's voice, I have no idea why he became famous.

Jonathan, I love your innocent, honest critique of Cash's voice. However, saying what you did is much like going to a fine restaurant where the wine steward brings you a bottle of 1934 Duhart-Milon Rothschild and you say, "Look how old this junk is, don't you have any new stuff????!!!"

Musical artistry is much more than just keeping rhythm and pitch. There are attributes of vocal interpretation and vocal styling. Dylan is a poet who does vocal stylings.

There is also an attribute of musical gravitas that a musician earns over the years through endurance and dogged perseverance. Johnny Cash is a legend because of all of these criteria.

But you're right, if you take those things away then the man can't sing.

Calvibaptist · #15 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMerlin777

Actually, I kinda like Bob Dylan too.

I much prefer Dylan Thomas, but that's just me.

I had the supreme joy of hearing Johnny Cash sing during the 4th of July celebration on the D.C. Mall a few years ago. It was a very painful experience. I felt like I was right in the middle of his "Ring of Fire."

caddy · #16 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

Jonathan, I love your innocent, honest critique of Cash's voice. However, saying what you did is much like going to a fine restaurant where the wine steward brings you a bottle of 1934 Duhart-Milon Rothschild and you say, "Look how old this junk is, don't you have any new stuff????!!!"

Musical artistry is much more than just keeping rhythm and pitch. There are attributes of vocal interpretation and vocal styling. Dylan is a poet who does vocal stylings.

There is also an attribute of musical gravitas that a musician earns over the years through endurance and dogged perseverance. Johnny Cash is a legend because of all of these criteria.

But you're right, if you take those things away then the man can't sing.

Miller · #17 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 01:48 PM

I'm a huge Johnny Cash fan. One thing I found interesting was that in his later years he would take the Lord's Supper at home by himself over the phone with Ruben (forget his last name). This Ruben character was not a Christian, but he did this for Cash. This information is in the liner notes for one of Cash's last cds.

BobVigneault · #18 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

We had a ritual to speak every day since just before June had passed.

One of the reasons for the ritual was actually Dr. Gene Scott, the outrageous televangelist who did a show explaining how he cured his own cancer by doing communion every day. His argument for how is worked was thought provoking. I told Johnny about it on the phone one afternoon, and the next time we were together in person we discussed it further. I had never taken communion before, so he had someone find his old communion kit. He hadn't used it in many years but he did that day and Johnny game me my first communion. We spoke about doing it every day, and that's when the ritual began. each day we would speak on the phone and Johnny would perform the communion rite. We would both visualize and internalize, eyes closed. It was performed as a meditation. A moment to connect deeply to spirit. Every call always ended the same way.

"I love you, John."
"I love you, Rick."

Rick Ruben

PuritanCovenanter · #19 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

DId anyone actually enjoy that? That was the most painful exhibition of 'singing' I have ever heard. If that is Cash's voice, I have no idea why he became famous.

Your statement had me rolling on the floor laughing Jonathan. And I agree.

raderag · #20 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

We had a ritual to speak every day since just before June had passed.

One of the reasons for the ritual was actually Dr. Gene Scott, the outrageous televangelist who did a show explaining how he cured his own cancer by doing communion every day. His argument for how is worked was thought provoking. I told Johnny about it on the phone one afternoon, and the next time we were together in person we discussed it further. I had never taken communion before, so he had someone find his old communion kit. He hadn't used it in many years but he did that day and Johnny game me my first communion. We spoke about doing it every day, and that's when the ritual began. each day we would speak on the phone and Johnny would perform the communion rite. We would both visualize and internalize, eyes closed. It was performed as a meditation. A moment to connect deeply to spirit. Every call always ended the same way.

"I love you, John."
"I love you, Rick."

What utter disregard for the Church and Sacrament.

BobVigneault · #21 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 03:35 PM

In his desperation he turned to magic. I've seen it before.

PuritanCovenanter · #22 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

In his desperation he turned to magic. I've seen it before.

We call it Rabbit Foot theology.....