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    jenson75 is offline. Inactive User
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    Charles Swindoll

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    Last edited by jenson75; 02-06-2007 at 04:47 PM.
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    Originally posted by jenson75
    May I know what do you think of Charles Swindoll?

    Here in London, I listen to him (almost) every morning, as Premier Radio (a exceedingly broad "christian" station) broadcast his programme at 6am, when I wake up. Would you recommend/endorse him?
    Most of the time I like him.For somebody who is popular,he does seem to have detailed teaching/preaching.He`s friends with Rc Sproul.
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    I have not analyzed his teaching since becoming reformed. He was however, I think, one of my steps toward finding and listening to RC Sproul. I would listen to him too and always thought he sounded really no nonsense. I know he comes out of DTS but I have never heard him preach like a dispensationalist.
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    Has Mega church 5 miles from my house. The church is growing so fast, its standing room only on some days. I know this because a friend of mine attends. Swindoll is very active with DTS (Dallas Theological Seminary). Teaches Dispensational theology. Typical bible church atmosphere. I think you would be better served to find Dr. Sproul on radio or MP3's on sermon audio. fyi- DTS is moving toward a "progressive dispensationalism" in some circles. Not sure if Swindoll pushes that or not, dont spend much time researching.
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    New wine skin is offline. Inactive User
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    I can say this, regardless of his theology being good or bad , my friend enjoy's Swindoll, which makes me happy because prior to attending Swindoll he refused to go to church or talk about Christ. I figured better to have him there than no where... He picked Stonebriar Church because a job he held required men's meeting at that church. By God's grace the guys at this job of his got him connected w Swindoll. So, two years of prayer for my friend landed him with Swindoll..... what am I to say???? Now he is changing his life, repenting, reading the word on regular basis. Praise God!
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    His denomination is Evangelical Free which does not emphasize eschatology though it is pre-millennial. Holds to DTS teachings about sanctification from what I can tell. Better Swindoll than no one, but I find him "fluffy" at times. I know someone who went to his church when he was in Fullerton, CA who says he used to be a good expository preacher (Dispie, I'm sure) but he seems to have changed. Not sure why, hopefully he'll change again, for the better.
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    I agree with what people have said so far. As far as public speaking goes, he is incredible. His voice is perfect for public speaking, and he does preach the Bible. I have heard him preach dispensationalism (I was dispie-oriented then and it wasn't too convincing), but like all church-growers, they know that you do not grow a church by preaching eschatology. Althoguh fluffy at times, I like him and will listen to him if he is on the radio when I am in the car.

    From hearing him he has a more biblical-oriented view of sanctification as opposed to say, Bruce Wilkinson. Now on paper they might believe the same thing.

    I would gladlyhear him preach. I don't like his books, though.
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    Personal preference, perhaps. I don't read him when I have a chance to read Piper, Sproul, et al.
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    He is definitely Dispensational, and a promoter of the church-growth phenomenon, not to mention that the Evangelical Free Churches are largely Arminian. I guess I just don't understand why a Reformed believer would want to spend time reading him for personal growth when there is such a mass of first-rate Puritan and Reformed writings we'll never be able to get through as it is.
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    VirginiaHuguenot is offline. Puritanboard Librarian
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    Originally posted by Me Died Blue
    He is definitely Dispensational, and a promoter of the church-growth phenomenon, not to mention that the Evangelical Free Churches are largely Arminian. I guess I just don't understand why a Reformed believer would want to spend time reading him for personal growth when there is such a mass of first-rate Puritan and Reformed writings we'll never be able to get through as it is.
    Andrew

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    Is Chuck Swindoll reformed?Vernon McGee was reformed but "WAS" a dispensationalist.
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    BlackCalvinist's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Me Died Blue
    He is definitely Dispensational, and a promoter of the church-growth phenomenon, not to mention that the Evangelical Free Churches are largely Arminian.
    That's incorrect. The majority of Free Churches are Calvinistic ( roughly 60% Calvinist, 40% Arminian). The bulk of folks at our Seminary (Trinity) are Calvinistic. The denom has been gradually becoming more Calvinistic over the past few years thanks to folks like D.A. Carson, Greg Strand (who I've met - very nice guy!) and Willem VanGeremen (hope I spelled his name right).

    Now of that 60% Calvinistic bunch, about 30% are paedobaptist and 70% are credobaptist. My pastor's part of that 30% paedo crowd.
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    How has Willem Van Gemeren influenced the EFCA? Doesn't he still teach at M.A.R.S.?
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    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    Swindoll believes and preaches election! Have you heard his sermon on Romans 9? Quite good.

    He is very practical, teaching that if you believe it you live it! Sound doctrine produces right living.

    I love to listen to him and am very encouraged by his preaching. He takes tough theological concepts and makes them very easy to understand and to communicate to others. Don't get me wrong, I also like to hear more "theological" preachers, but Swindoll is a refreshing breeze at times, showing where that theology leads in living! It isn't just what you know, but who you are in Christ that matters.

    Also, while he has a large church I have never equated him with the church growth movement. His books are hit and miss.

    Phillip

    [Edited on 6-16-05 by pastorway]
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    I remember reading on a Jonathan Edwards site that Swindoll believed that faith comes before regeneration. It was a challenge to him and those at DTS about their statement of faith.

    He may say he believes in election but has anyone heard him talk about faith and regeneration? Does he believe that faith comes before or after?
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    Originally posted by Scot
    I remember reading on a Jonathan Edwards site that Swindoll believed that faith comes before regeneration. It was a challenge to him and those at DTS about their statement of faith.

    He may say he believes in election but has anyone heard him talk about faith and regeneration? Does he believe that faith comes before or after?
    He may tinker with it and say that while elect, God could have ordained that faith come before regeneration. Of course, saying that undermines in practice and in theory faith coming before regeneration.
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    Everyone I have personally known from the EFCA has either been basically Arminian or else apathetic on the subject, except for just a couple Calvinistic professors at Trinity International University when I visited over a year ago. I also recall Dr. Sproul specifically mentioning Dr. Swindoll and commenting that his views on soteriology were somewhat unclear.
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    Originally posted by Average Joey
    Is Chuck Swindoll reformed?Vernon McGee was reformed but "WAS" a dispensationalist.
    I took a trip on the old Bible bus with McGee. I listened to him for years while I did the dishes after dinner along with Lester Roloff. (however you spell Roleoff). McGee definitely wasn't reformed. He even believed Jesus was still trying to get Judas to come unto him after the betrayal. Jesus was unsuccessful. McGee was a Presbyterian at one time. Darby and Scofield just got to him.

    As far as Swindoll goes.... He is back and forth. Sometimes he sounds like one who believes in Irrestible Grace then at other times he says God would never impose His will upon another because He is a gentleman. I just say ask old King Neb and St. Paul. That should answer the question.

    [Edited on 6-16-2005 by puritancovenanter]

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    I agree with Randy. :-)
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    Have a look here .They have a thing or two to say about Dallas Theological Cemetary.

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    Originally posted by puritancovenanter
    Originally posted by Average Joey
    Is Chuck Swindoll reformed?Vernon McGee was reformed but "WAS" a dispensationalist.
    I took a trip on the old Bible bus with McGee. I listened to him for years while I did the dishes after dinner along with Lester Roloff. (however you spell Roleoff). McGee definitely wasn't reformed. He even believed Jesus was still trying to get Judas to come unto him after the betrayal. Jesus was unsuccessful. McGee was a Presbyterian at one time. Darby and Scofield just got to him.

    As far as Swindoll goes.... He is back and forth. Sometimes he sounds like one who believes in Irrestible Grace then at other times he says God would never impose His will upon another because He is a gentleman. I just say ask old King Neb and St. Paul. That should answer the question.

    [Edited on 6-16-2005 by puritancovenanter]
    But,I have heard several sermons where he said he is a calvinist.That he believed in election.
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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pastorway
    Swindoll believes and preaches election! Have you heard his sermon on Romans 9? Quite good.

    He is very practical, teaching that if you believe it you live it! Sound doctrine produces right living.

    I love to listen to him and am very encouraged by his preaching. He takes tough theological concepts and makes them very easy to understand and to communicate to others. Don't get me wrong, I also like to hear more "theological" preachers, but Swindoll is a refreshing breeze at times, showing where that theology leads in living! It isn't just what you know, but who you are in Christ that matters.

    Also, while he has a large church I have never equated him with the church growth movement. His books are hit and miss.

    Phillip

    [Edited on 6-16-05 by pastorway]
    I didn`t hear his Romans 9 sermon.I did hear him explain thoroughly that we are chosen by God.I really enjoyed his preaching through the book of Job.I hope maybe our pastor might preach from Job after he is through with John.We are about half-way through.So,that means we have about 6 more months to go.Which is a good thing.I love John.
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  23. #23
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    Chuck preached about election when he preached on Ephesians. It was excellent, and for at least the first chapters he was fluff-free and very Calvinistic.
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    Originally posted by Average Joey
    Originally posted by puritancovenanter
    Originally posted by Average Joey
    Is Chuck Swindoll reformed?Vernon McGee was reformed but "WAS" a dispensationalist.
    I took a trip on the old Bible bus with McGee. I listened to him for years while I did the dishes after dinner along with Lester Roloff. (however you spell Roleoff). McGee definitely wasn't reformed. He even believed Jesus was still trying to get Judas to come unto him after the betrayal. Jesus was unsuccessful. McGee was a Presbyterian at one time. Darby and Scofield just got to him.

    As far as Swindoll goes.... He is back and forth. Sometimes he sounds like one who believes in Irrestible Grace then at other times he says God would never impose His will upon another because He is a gentleman. I just say ask old King Neb and St. Paul. That should answer the question.

    [Edited on 6-16-2005 by puritancovenanter]
    But,I have heard several sermons where he said he is a calvinist.That he believed in election.
    Every denomination and theological persuasion has a doctrine of election. They differ in when does God do the electing. Did he do it based upon seeing a persons faith in the future or did God elect them based upon His sovereign will and not based upon anything within them.

    Others claim to be Calvinist...3 pointers...3.5 pointers...4 pointers... 4.5 pointers.....5 pointers....take your pick. I personally don't believe you can be anything less than a 5 pointer logically.

    [Edited on 6-17-2005 by puritancovenanter]

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    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    Swindoll said that God chose before the creation of hte world based upon His own sovereign will with no "input" from a twisted view of foreknowledge. He said plainly that God chose to save those who would be saved and did not chose those who would be lost. He stated in his sermon on Romans 9 that "salvation begins with God's sovereign choice of who He will save."

    It was very calvinistic!

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    PuritanCovenanter's Avatar
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    We are talking about J. Vernon McGee Phil. I don't believe Swindoll is consistant on his doctrinal stance either. He may be a so called 4 pointer who believes in equipoise.

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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by puritancovenanter
    Originally posted by Average Joey
    Originally posted by puritancovenanter
    Originally posted by Average Joey
    Is Chuck Swindoll reformed?Vernon McGee was reformed but "WAS" a dispensationalist.
    I took a trip on the old Bible bus with McGee. I listened to him for years while I did the dishes after dinner along with Lester Roloff. (however you spell Roleoff). McGee definitely wasn't reformed. He even believed Jesus was still trying to get Judas to come unto him after the betrayal. Jesus was unsuccessful. McGee was a Presbyterian at one time. Darby and Scofield just got to him.

    As far as Swindoll goes.... He is back and forth. Sometimes he sounds like one who believes in Irrestible Grace then at other times he says God would never impose His will upon another because He is a gentleman. I just say ask old King Neb and St. Paul. That should answer the question.

    [Edited on 6-16-2005 by puritancovenanter]
    But,I have heard several sermons where he said he is a calvinist.That he believed in election.
    Every denomination and theological persuasion has a doctrine of election. They differ in when does God do the electing. Did he do it based upon seeing a persons faith in the future or did God elect them based upon His sovereign will and not based upon anything within them.

    Others claim to be Calvinist...3 pointers...3.5 pointers...4 pointers... 4.5 pointers.....5 pointers....take your pick. I personally don't believe you can be anything less than a 5 pointer logically.

    [Edited on 6-17-2005 by puritancovenanter]
    Maybe you are correct.There is a friend of mine who also says he is a Calvinist but says in Roman`s 8 that foreknew is defined as knowing the future person`s heart would turn or something.Instead of the word foreknew meaning He(God) chose before time to love the person in spite of the evil of his heart.
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    New wine skin is offline. Inactive User
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    It is no surprise to me Swindoll waivers. Fractional Calvinism (3pt, 3.365 pts, 4.5pt et al) seems to be the norm w DTS realm. In my opinion its inconsistent Calvinism that is in its discovery/ growth phase. Then when they figure out that reformed/covenant theology is a key element to grasping Calvinism then "Viola".... I was like that until it "clicked".
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  29. #29
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    Actually, Covenant Theology isn't a 'key' in grasping Calvinism.... I only have begun to fully accept Covenant Theology this year ( 2 months actually ).... I've been a fully convinced 5-pointer since December of 2000. You still have a buncha folks who are either 'modified' dispensationalists (like MacArthur) who are fully Calvinistic or some Progressive Dispy folks (like I used to be) who are fully Calvinistic as well.
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    Originally posted by OS_X
    or some Progressive Dispy folks (like I used to be) who are fully Calvinistic as well.
    What are you now???????
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    New wine skin is offline. Inactive User
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    Originally posted by OS_X
    Actually, Covenant Theology isn't a 'key' in grasping Calvinism.... I only have begun to fully accept Covenant Theology this year ( 2 months actually ).... I've been a fully convinced 5-pointer since December of 2000. You still have a buncha folks who are either 'modified' dispensationalists (like MacArthur) who are fully Calvinistic or some Progressive Dispy folks (like I used to be) who are fully Calvinistic as well.

    Sorry bro, have to disagree with you on this. Just because you didnīt understand covenant theology back then doesnīt mean its not a key to understanding Calvinism. You need a better argument than that. Covenant theology is key element to "understanding" soteriology within Calvinism. It acts as bridge between anthropology and soteriology. Covenant theology provides unity of dispensations and unites NT and OT by means of redemptive history. 5 pts Calvinism with any Dispensationalism is a theological aberrant of soteriology and is not reformed Calvinism. Covenant theology is also important in that it helps maintain a correct understanding of justification. Too often we run into the issue of antinomianism and the Lordship controversy if there is a lack of or misunderstanding of the covenant framework. Without a covenant framework faith has a tendency shift from being the means to salvation to being made the ground of salvation (sinners prayer sotierology). Covenant theology is so interrelated I donīt know how a Calvinist could deny it or say its not essential to understanding the components of Calvinism. I want to be sensitive not the peg calvinism as "exclusively" a 5 points "system" (as I am sure you would also). That would be reductionism and it does a dishonor to the theological system. Calvinism is an orthodox theological and biblical dynamic system for understanding and coming into proper context and relation with the Holy God of scripture. This includes the doctrine of covenant theology.

    I am not saying you were not a 5 pt Calvinist, but I would say you lacked a full appreciation of calvinism in an efficacious sense back then and maybe still do because your so new to the doctrine, which is ok (we have to start somewhere). I donīt want you to think I am down talking you because we are all in a discovery phase of revelation together and at different places. Maybe you reject it because the term in the sense we use it was not adequately worked out until the seventeenth century??? (I get this all the time from people who are dispensationalist) To which I would reply just because Calvin himself didnīt have a working definition of "covenant theology" as we do today doesnīt mean he didnīt grasp the concept and it didnīt exist prior in the minds of men. Would you say that because Anselm was the first to write a treatise on Substitutionary atonement, the doctrine didnīt exist until the 11 century?? Of course not. Moving on, let me also qualify my position by saying you donīt need to recognize all 5 points of calvinism to be saved. The point I am making is that covenant theology is a critical element of Calvinism even if it is not recognized.

    Please be intellectually honest in your response and if you still disagree and have time to respond please be more specific in why you disagree with me. Look forward to more discussion.

    blessings
    Scott McManus
    Attending Hillcrest Church
    RTS Charlotte - MA Distance
    Dallas TX

  32. #32
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    Originally posted by OS_X
    That's incorrect. The majority of Free Churches are Calvinistic ( roughly 60% Calvinist, 40% Arminian). The bulk of folks at our Seminary (Trinity) are Calvinistic. The denom has been gradually becoming more Calvinistic over the past few years thanks to folks like D.A. Carson, Greg Strand (who I've met - very nice guy!) and Willem VanGeremen (hope I spelled his name right).

    Now of that 60% Calvinistic bunch, about 30% are paedobaptist and 70% are credobaptist. My pastor's part of that 30% paedo crowd.
    Are you a student at TEDS? Get to know Grant Osborne... (for those who don't know of him, he's TEDS' token Arminian/egalitarian)... I know his daughter and son-in-law... he is a remarkably gracious guy who loves Jesus very much. Spend time getting to know him.
    My "native" denomination is EFCA... I find your percentages to be a little unscientific (to say the least). I agree that in recent years TEDS has put out primarily Calvinistic graduates, but I don't think that it is yet fair to say that most EFCA churches are calvinistic (as your stats imply). I think it would help the EFCA to drop that silly bit in their statement of faith which enshrines premillenialism and makes word-splitters out of all the post-trib folks in the denomination. I know of many guys who would fit in well with the EFCA minus premillenialism.
    Ben
    Chaplain, US Army
    Stuttgart, Germany
    TE Potomac Presbytery, PCA
    www.thebenaddiction.com

    "Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do not do that thing." -- Dwight Schrute

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