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General discussions discuss Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The Father in the General Forums forums; Starts at about 1:20 If this is true I guess we do not need to evangelize....

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    Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The Father


    Starts at about 1:20
    If this is true I guess we do not need to evangelize.
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    God have mercy, indeed!
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    Sad, sad, sad. Sad.
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    Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The Father
    That is clearly a twisting of what Billy Graham actually said.
    Daniel
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    On Larry King he also pulled the "I don't judge who's going to heaven or hell--I leave it up to God" card. We jump all over Joel Osteen for saying that on Larry King but Graham is often seen as off-limits for criticism. I love the man and praise God for his past ministry, but oh how tragic it is to see him slip so far into the molasses pit of inclusivism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The Father
    That is clearly a twisting of what Billy Graham actually said.
    Huh?

    Did you watch the video?

    Sure he didn't say "I deny that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father".

    But, what he DID say is equivalent to this. He has CLEARLY denied the exclusivity of Christ, and to my knowledge never backed off this.
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    I agree with Daniel. It is actually not very clear from this short clip if that is what Billy Graham is saying. In general, I am somewhat nervous about some of the things that Rev Graham has said in recent years but this is by no means the worst.

    -----Added 6/26/2009 at 04:45:40 EST-----

    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The Father
    That is clearly a twisting of what Billy Graham actually said.
    Huh?

    Did you watch the video?

    Sure he didn't say "I deny that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father".

    But, what he DID say is equivalent to this. He has CLEARLY denied the exclusivity of Christ, and to my knowledge never backed off this.
    I watched the video and I am not sure it was as clear cut as you suggest. I think he was very political in his answer but still pointed to Christ. There are probably better examples of where Rev Graham's theology is somewhat lacking (some people have provided some links here).
    Jon
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The Father
    That is clearly a twisting of what Billy Graham actually said.
    Huh?

    Did you watch the video?

    Sure he didn't say "I deny that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father".

    But, what he DID say is equivalent to this. He has CLEARLY denied the exclusivity of Christ, and to my knowledge never backed off this.
    Yep, watched it twice. He never denied that it is through Jesus that we are saved--he seemed to be talking about people who know they are in need of salvation and do not know the name of Jesus, yet are saved by Jesus' work.

    I'm not denying some problems in his theology, though I think his words have been twisted.
    Daniel
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonmo View Post
    I agree with Daniel. It is actually not very clear from this short clip if that is what Billy Graham is saying. In general, I am somewhat nervous about some of the things that Rev Graham has said in recent years but this is by no means the worst.

    -----Added 6/26/2009 at 04:45:40 EST-----

    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post

    That is clearly a twisting of what Billy Graham actually said.
    Huh?

    Did you watch the video?

    Sure he didn't say "I deny that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father".

    But, what he DID say is equivalent to this. He has CLEARLY denied the exclusivity of Christ, and to my knowledge never backed off this.
    I watched the video and I am not sure it was as clear cut as you suggest. I think he was very political in his answer but still pointed to Christ. As I said in my other post, there are probably better examples of where Rev Graham's theology is somewhat lacking (some people have provided some links here).
    What he said was that people, not even knowing the name of Christ, but feeling a longing for something, so they turn to the only light they have, and are saved and will be in Heaven with us.

    WITHOUT KNOWING CHRIST.

    PERIOD.

    IT started out sounding like he was talking about men and women of all backgrounds being called out of those religions (or non-religion) and coming to Christ for salvation... but he never said that. All he said is that they'd be saved by turning to the only light they have, trying to fill the void they feel, and without even knowing the name of Christ, they'll be saved.

    That's heresy.

    Sorry if you disagree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post

    That is clearly a twisting of what Billy Graham actually said.
    Huh?

    Did you watch the video?

    Sure he didn't say "I deny that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father".

    But, what he DID say is equivalent to this. He has CLEARLY denied the exclusivity of Christ, and to my knowledge never backed off this.
    Yep, watched it twice. He never denied that it is through Jesus that we are saved--he seemed to be talking about people who know they are in need of salvation and do not know the name of Jesus, yet are saved by Jesus' work.

    I'm not denying some problems in his theology, though I think his words have been twisted.
    To say that one is saved by Jesus' work, even if he does not know the name of Christ, is blasphemy. It's not just a "problem", it's blasphemy.
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    Todd,

    Do you think there is any difference in suggesting that someone can be justified apart from Christ and suggesting that someone can be justified by Christ without actually knowing the name of Christ?

    I think they are both flawed, yet different. It's one thing to suggest there is more than one way to salvation. It's another thing to suggest that salvation by Christ can come to those who may not know the name of Christ.
    Daniel
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    I don't think it's a twisting of Grahams words and I quote: “Whether they are conscious of knowing Christ or not are part of the Body of Christ.” So he clearly said that some people and he reference Muslims, can know Christ without being conscious of it. Well if they are not conscience of it then they cannot accept the work of the atonement. And if they cannot willingly accept then I'm afraid they have not embraced Christ or His Gospel and this is clearly another gospel that Graham and Schueller are preaching. They need much prayer to be delivered from this heresy that is found in Universalism.

    So if you read between the lines everyone is in the Body of Christ potentially as even the person who only knows Christ subconsciously is not aware of this knowledge and then what is the point of preaching? What was the atonement for? Why call anyone to repentance? Can you repent subconsciously as well? Perhaps this is where the Arminian gospel takes you.

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    Yes, and if Graham cannot speak clearly and without ambiguity about this after all those years of ministry, there is something wrong.
    Tim Lindsay
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The Father
    That is clearly a twisting of what Billy Graham actually said.
    That was just the YouTube heading, I copied and pasted it.
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    This has been the subject of threads recently on Puritan Board, including this video clip (search key word "Billy Graham") to see previous discussion about this. (e.g. MacArthur on Billy Graham)
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    To say that one is saved by Jesus' work, even if he does not know the name of Christ, is blasphemy. It's not just a "problem", it's blasphemy.
    I'd say that is bad theology, not blasphemy.
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    Does anyone know where the full interview can be viewed?
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    Iain Murray covers this in detail in the book Evangelicalism Divided. It is shocking how off the narrow path Graham was. Murray has many well documented sources. It is horrifying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Todd,

    Do you think there is any difference in suggesting that someone can be justified apart from Christ and suggesting that someone can be justified by Christ without actually knowing the name of Christ?

    I think they are both flawed, yet different. It's one thing to suggest there is more than one way to salvation. It's another thing to suggest that salvation by Christ can come to those who may not know the name of Christ.
    The way to salvation that Scripture presents CANNOT (no uncertain terms) be phrased that involves not even knowing who Christ is. PERIOD. This is a non-negotiable. To posit that someone can be "saved by Christ" apart from explicit faith in Christ is beyond horrific. It is another gospel, and a false one at that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynnie View Post
    Iain Murray covers this in detail in the book Evangelicalism Divided. It is shocking how off the narrow path Graham was. Murray has many well documented sources. It is horrifying.


    Murray shows Graham was off the reservation back in the 1960's...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    To say that one is saved by Jesus' work, even if he does not know the name of Christ, is blasphemy. It's not just a "problem", it's blasphemy.
    I'd say that is bad theology, not blasphemy.
    I'm probably being loose with the term, though I do believe the suggestion that someone can be saved apart from knowledge of and explicit faith put in Christ, the Son of God is indeed blasphemous.
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    This actually doesn't surprise me at all...Graham has always been very ambiguous when it comes to the gospel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Todd,

    Do you think there is any difference in suggesting that someone can be justified apart from Christ and suggesting that someone can be justified by Christ without actually knowing the name of Christ?

    I think they are both flawed, yet different. It's one thing to suggest there is more than one way to salvation. It's another thing to suggest that salvation by Christ can come to those who may not know the name of Christ.
    If you say "can salvation come to one who doesn't know Christ by name", I will say Yes, surely... that is to say, there is no restriction on point of origin for someone who comes to faith in Christ (which is the ONLY path to salvation according to the Word of God). Salvation can come to them - though they will not go to their grave not knowing Christ by name. Salvation comes to all sorts of people, but it is by faith (and not simply some implicit "faith in God", but faith in Jesus Christ our Lord) that one is saved.
    Todd K. Pedlar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    To posit that someone can be "saved by Christ" apart from explicit faith in Christ is beyond horrific. It is another gospel, and a false one at that.
    So you don't think it is a twisting of his words to say that Graham believes Christ is not the only way to salvation?

    I'm all for a thread that talks about the errors in his theology. But how about we stick to quoting the man directly, rather than attributing statements he did not make???
    Daniel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    To posit that someone can be "saved by Christ" apart from explicit faith in Christ is beyond horrific. It is another gospel, and a false one at that.
    So you don't think it is a twisting of his words to say that Graham believes Christ is not the only way to salvation?

    I'm all for a thread that talks about the errors in his theology. But how about we stick to quoting the man directly, rather than attributing statements he did not make???
    I do not think it is a twisting of his words. It captures what his words mean, which is that people can be saved apart from knowing Christ as Lord and Savior. You might not like the way the video was titled, and I wouldn't probably have titled it that way.... but Graham DOES in those words posit the concept that people can be saved without ever actually knowing Jesus Christ. THAT indicates that he believes (or at LEAST was saying) that Christ is not the only way to salvation.

    I really don't understand what the objection is. The title to the thread did NOT lie - it did not say "Billy Graham said, 'Jesus Christ is not the only way to salvation.'" What it said was a summary of what that video showed quite clearly. Tactful? not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    I do not think it is a twisting of his words.
    We'll just have to disagree on that. I found the title of the video extremely misleading. I expected someone to ask Graham if Christ is the only way and for him to answer "No".

    ... but Graham DOES in those words posit the concept that people can be saved without ever actually knowing Jesus Christ. THAT indicates that he believes (or at LEAST was saying) that Christ is not the only way to salvation.
    If we were to ask Billy Graham right now, or better yet, if at the end of the video clip he was asked in clarification if Christ is the only means to salvation, what do you think his answer would have been?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    I do not think it is a twisting of his words.
    We'll just have to disagree on that. I found the title of the video extremely misleading. I expected someone to ask Graham if Christ is the only way and for him to answer "No".

    ... but Graham DOES in those words posit the concept that people can be saved without ever actually knowing Jesus Christ. THAT indicates that he believes (or at LEAST was saying) that Christ is not the only way to salvation.
    If we were to ask Billy Graham right now, or better yet, if at the end of the video clip he was asked in clarification if Christ is the only means to salvation, what do you think his answer would have been?
    I don't discount the possibility (remote, though i think it is) that we are wrong in the assessment. He is a master communicator, and I don't see how his words could have been clearer. If asked, I think he might argue as was suggested earlier, that people who are saved are ALL saved by Christ's Cross - EVEN IF THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM BY NAME.

    So I think what he said accurately reflects what he believes - that some who do not know Christ are saved by His Cross.

    So he would argue that Christ is the only means... but his statements about salvation are in DIRECT contradiction to that explicit statement, should he have said this.

    Todd
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    Daniel, If I might interject here -- we need to remember that words are not static, but carry with them the intention of the speaker. Of course, if you asked Billy Graham, "Yes or no -- Is Jesus Christ the only way to salvation?" he would surely say, "Yes!"; but, as I noted in another thread the other day, the Pope could also recently say, "We are justified by faith alone." This is meaningless, however, as he intends something wholly different than we do by the words. When we say "Christ is the only way to salvation," we mean "faith in Christ receiving and resting upon his redemptive work" is the only way to salvation; this is not what Graham would mean by the words. Therefore, in the sense that we intend, it seems only honest to conclude that Graham would deny the proposition.

    Either way, it probably shouldn't matter too much to us one way or the other. Graham for many other reasons is already well outside the pale of orthodoxy, and I doubt many here would be referring friends and family to Graham's teachings as a sound guide. I can see how the information might be useful, however, if someone ever asks for reasons why we wouldn't refer them to Graham.
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    I really don't understand what the objection is. The title to the thread did NOT lie - it did not say "Billy Graham said, 'Jesus Christ is not the only way to salvation.'" What it said was a summary of what that video showed quite clearly. Tactful? not so much.
    I honestly did not mean to make a big deal out of this, but I thought it was appropriate to point out that the title of the video is not an accurate description of what is actually said.
    We are all fully aware that Billy Graham is no theologian. I realize he has been wrong about many things. But I don't for one second believe that Graham is blasphemous or is preaching that there is another way to salvation.

    Maybe I'm just overly sensitive on this issue--Like thousands of others, Billy Graham was influential in my family. My grandfather professed faith in Christ over 50 years ago because Graham was preaching Christ and him crucified. The Lord then used my grandfather to lead my great-grandfather, my grandmother, and my father to Christ.

    Yes, Graham's theology was/is flawed. But what good are we doing by dragging up old video clips and passing them around with misleading titles? (And I realize the person who posted this did not create the title). Like I said before, it's fine to discuss where Graham was wrong, but let's stick to what he actually said.
    Daniel
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    I tried to find the entire interview online, but to no avail! However, I did find this video with John Macarthur who had a transcription of the interview....and he quotes Schuller and Graham at greater length. I think it clearly lays out where Graham stood on the gospel in later years!

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    I gave a link to a thread with that video up top

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    Quote Originally Posted by AThornquist View Post
    I gave a link to a thread with that video up top
    Oh really? LOL.....I didn't see it...

    Thanks for pointing it out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by In His Grip View Post
    This actually doesn't surprise me at all...Graham has always been very ambiguous when it comes to the gospel.
    It was through Dr. Graham (his book) that I found Christ as the ONLY way - there was nothing ambiguous in his message. As for those who never heard the Gospel, there are different opinions on that (many in my denomination, I believe, would not be that shocked by this), and I suppose I cannot be the final judge of it: the Scripture does not seem to reveal as everything in this matter.
    Dr. Graham may be wrong - as well as everybody else. Just my opinion.
    Igor
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  36. #36
    jogri17 is offline. Puritanboard Junior
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    this is somewhat old news...
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by In His Grip View Post
    This actually doesn't surprise me at all...Graham has always been very ambiguous when it comes to the gospel.
    It was through Dr. Graham (his book) that I found Christ as the ONLY way - there was nothing ambiguous in his message. As for those who never heard the Gospel, there are different opinions on that (many in my denomination, I believe, would not be that shocked by this), and I suppose I cannot be the final judge of it: the Scripture does not seem to reveal as everything in this matter.
    Dr. Graham may be wrong - as well as everybody else. Just my opinion.
    Well, in his early years of ministry Dr. Graham might have preached a somewhat clear gospel message. (although there were many other things that I would have disagreed with him on.) However, over the years that message was heavily watered down to the point that Christ is no longer the ONLY way! As long as I've been alive and heard him speak on the radio or television....his message has always been very ambiguous. In fact, I've heard Billy Graham say with his own mouth that wickedness in the Bible does not mean that we do wicked things.....but that we are simply separated from God. Personally, I don't think you'd be able to find a recent interview or broadcast with him clearly laying out the gospel. That's just my opinion.
    Yvonne K.
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  38. #38
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    Since the fifties and sixties, Graham associated himself with and cozied up to all sorts of ungodly, traitorous, globalistic movements and people. There's a reason he was so popular and it's not because of his biblical orthodoxy - orthodoxy is never popular.
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  39. #39
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    Regarding the teaching that those who have never heard the gospel, and yet are considered saved, I believe the following scriptures teach otherwise clearly:

    Romans 10:13-15 (King James Version)

    13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    **If they have never heard the name of the Lord, how then can they call on Him and believe? One cannot be saved without hearing the Name of Christ, the gospel - only those who do can be saved.
    Last edited by christianhope; 06-27-2009 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Clarity
    Josh
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kauffeld View Post
    **If they have never heard the name of the Lord, how then can they call on Him and believe? This scripture should settle the issue, for it clearly teaches one cannot be saved without hearing, and therefore believing in "the name of the Lord" - only those who do so can be saved.
    Agreed, and Acts 10 should also considered as well -- God sent Peter as a missionary to the household of Cornelius to preach the gospel. God ordains the ends as well as the means.
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