When choosing between two churches, which would be better? A Baptist chruch that is dispensational but Calvinistic, they are heavily into Macarthur, good biblical, expositional teaching, pastor was a missionary to some former communist country and is a former Marine.

Or, a PCA church that is presbyterian in name only, very contemporary, church is not serious at all, people getting up in the middle of service to refill their coffee or get a bagel. The assistant pastor wears red snickers on the pulpit. However, both pastor went to Covenant and they are presbyterian.

I know someone at both. The PCA church is very people oriented, the Baptist chruch very teaching oriented.

The answers seems obvious, I guess, I just don't know if I want to go back to hearing about the "rapture" and who the Antichrist is all the time.

__________________
Erick Bohndorf PCA, KS
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
Jeremiah 23:16,17, "Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. 17They say continually to those who despise the word of the Lord, ‘It shall be well with you’; and to everyone who stubbornly follows his own heart, they say, ‘No disaster shall come upon you."

I'd take the Baptist church any day, if those were the only two choices, based on your descriptions of them.

__________________
Scott
Dallas, Texas
PCA

"I believe that pluralistic secularism, in the long run, is a more deadly poison than straightforward persecution." - Francis Schaeffer

I would take the Baptist church anyday, and I would report the PCA church to their Presbytery. What you described is something I would expect from a PCUSA church.

__________________
Andrew DeShazo, Deacon, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"All of us stumble in many ways, but if anyone is never at fault in what he says, then he is mature, able to control his whole body."(James 3:2)

Wow that is depressing.
I think if I opted out of the PCA I would let their elders know why.
it looks like either choice, God may be using you to open some eyes.

__________________
Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
"No matter how far a man goes, he eventually finds out God's already there." John Wayne - the last line in "Chisum"

I'd hold my nose and go to the Baptist chruch.

__________________
1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

This is a no-brainer. I concur with all of the above.

__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

There are other choices but not any that are any good. My wife and I have gone to well over a dozen different churches in the past two years and to be honest they are all the same (mostly like the PCA church). So we are deciding which of all the things we don't like can we live with. It looks like we might have to go back to a Baptist chruch in order to get something that is not charismaticie. I know now full well what Jesus was referring to in Revelation when he said "Because you are not hot or cold but luke warm I will spew you out of my mouth." I have felt that way many times when leaving church.

Go the leaky Dispensational Baptist route.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Covenant doesn't seem to be terribly solid...our Associate Pastor went there, and was preserved from the feminism and mushy-mindedness pilfered there.

I don't know if I could go to a Dispensational Baptist church...but from what you've described...I would definitely consider it (and I would not consider that PCA church).

__________________
Craig French
Married and father of a beautiful daughter.
Member of Christ The Word, PCA
Toledo, OH

MY BLOG

Neither.

__________________
Chris Mangum
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte
student, GPTS
.357 Mangum

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

I would go to the Baptist chuch in this case, and agree with some other comments that I would report the actions of the PCA church to the presbytery. I'm a very loyal PCA member, but I would definitely take a great Calvinistic baptist church over a mediocre PCA church...

__________________
Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

You mean this literally?

__________________
Bruce
PCUSA
Ocean City NJ

From the description of it, the PCA church doesn't sound like it is doing its job in terms of worship. Go with the Baptist church, as long as you're sure it is Reformed in its doctrine of salvation. You won't get fed at a PCA church like that.

__________________
Rev. Lane Keister
Teaching Elder, PCA, North Dakota (working out of bounds in a CRC and an RCA church)
http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com
http://brahmsgreenglove.blogspot.com
http://accenttranslation.blogspot.com
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

First, I would look for a solid reformed church within 2 hours driving distance and head that way. Finding none, I would go with the Baptist alternative.

Over a 4-year period we actually commuted twice a month from PA to Northern VA for church. We attended locally in between, and that local was 20 miles. It was hard.

__________________
~Jay~
Husband of ENS, father of J II. | Indian Trail, NC
Teacher Aide, Union County Public Schools, NC
Communicant Member, Precentor | Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte, NC | Presbyterian Reformed Church

Assess what it is that keeps you where you are. If those things are not as important as your spiritual growth and protection (and you're not providentially hindered from doing so), move to where a sounder Church can be found.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Which is what we finally did.

Definitely before I did anything I would initiate discussions with the elders. You do owe them, and your brothers and sisters that are subject to that awful atmosphere, at least that much.

__________________
Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

As a recovering dispensationalist (over 15 yeas ago)I hate to admit this but I would certainly recommend the Baptist church. As a PCA teaching elder I am grieved over some of our congregations that have more in common with Rick Warren's church or Jacob's Well in Kansas City, than a Reformed church. MacArthur is still dispensationalist (he does not know any better) but is a very solid Calvinist and a great Bible teacher. If the word is preached and people are serious about the word the Lord will deal with them on the dispensational non-sense.

__________________
Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia

Yes, you are under the authority of the session and have an obligation to make your concerns known to them. In a PCA congreagation as a communing member you have the right to voice your concerns to the session. If you file a complaint with the session, they are obligated to hear your concerns. You can appeal to the Presbytery, but only after you have made every attempt to be heard at the sessional level. I would not walk away from this congregation without calling them to repentance

Yes, I have many concerns with what is being turned out of Covenant Seminary. There were some great teachers years ago, but I am not sure what is happening now. Some of the FV guys from Missouri Presbytery are graduates of Covenant, but there are some great covenant men who are solid and confessional.

Except when they preach about baptism, the nature of the covenant, Israel, the Church, law/gospel, sanctification, etc. MacArthur doesn’t pull it off well at times, so no guarantee that a MacArthur-wannabe will do any better. It’s very hard for a so-called expositional preacher to get it right in most cases if all they have are the five points of Calvinism to work with.

Neither option sounds particularly attractive. The PCA guys sound like what the PCA is heading towards in general, esp. if the church has visions of more than 50 members.

BTW, what are "red snickers"?

__________________
Tom Albrecht
Member, Covenant URCNA, New Holland, PA.

"I'm not a famous man. I'm just a simple country doctor with horse sense."