Closed Thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Why Johnny Can't Preach

  1. #1
    greenbaggins's Avatar
    greenbaggins is offline now. Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hague, North Dakota
    Posts
    3,204
    Thanks
    1,009
    Thanked 2,619 Times in 897 Posts

    Why Johnny Can't Preach

    If you liked reading Neil Postman or Kenneth Myers, then you will like this book as well. It’s short, and you can read it in about two hours. However, this short book manages to put its finger on the pulse of what is wrong with preaching today in our culture.

    The basic thesis is that the electronic media have so shaped our culture that preachers cannot read the text with understanding, provide order and flow in their sermons, preach Christ, exposit the text, or provide instruction. Instead, they tend to read the text in a way that confirms what they already know, rather than taking the time to read the text well so as to be changed by it.

    All throughout this book, I was feeling a huge weight of electronic media crushing in all around me, with a gleam of hope shot through this book, such that I felt that there is a way to avoid jejune preaching, if only we as preachers could learn how to read texts not just for their informational content, but also for the way in which it is said, and how that realization could impact how we preach.

    It is impossible to be bored when reading T. David Gordon. He has a great sense of humor, and has all the qualities of writing which he laments preachers don’t have. An example of his humor:

    Several of the more incompetent preachers I’ve heard have jumped on the emergent bandwagon, and their ministerial careers are undergoing a resurgence now, as people flock to hear their enthusiastic worship leaders and to ogle their PowerPoint presentations. Their churches are no longer moribund, but then the annual carnival isn’t, either-it, too, is full of enthusiasm, activity, and lively entertainment. But I’m not sure these emergent activities have any more spiritual effect than the pig races at the carnival (p. 32, fn10).
    Buy this book for your pastor. If you are a pastor, buy it. Do not be offended at the title (parishioners who buy this book for their pastor might have to be careful about that landmine!). This book will help you be a better preacher, because it will help you focus on what is important in preaching.

    This book by T. David Gordon has been noticed here on the PB before. However, I just wanted to add my two cents.
    Rev. Lane Keister
    Teaching Elder, PCA, North Dakota (working out of bounds in a CRC and an RCA church)
    http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com
    http://brahmsgreenglove.blogspot.com
    http://accenttranslation.blogspot.com
    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to greenbaggins For This Useful Post:

    rbcbob (10-08-2009)

  3. #2
    Puritan Sailor's Avatar
    Puritan Sailor is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Lisbon, NY
    Posts
    6,127
    Thanks
    516
    Thanked 733 Times in 351 Posts
    I enjoyed the book as well. Very helpful not only in helping me to understand myself, but in helping me to overcome some of these cultural obstacles to good study and preaching.
    Patrick
    MDiv, RTS Jackson
    Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

    "He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
    "Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  4. #3
    Theogenes's Avatar
    Theogenes is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    ND
    Posts
    1,571
    Thanks
    493
    Thanked 252 Times in 180 Posts
    Gordon has an article in the latest Modern Reformation magazine about his book. It looks very interesting!
    Jim
    An Elder, Harvest Reformed Church (RCUS),Minot, ND
    http://www.harvestreformedchurch.org/
    http://tbftgoggi.wordpress.com/

    Upon a life I did not live; upon a death I did not die, Another's death, Another's life, I'd rest my soul eternally
    Omnia dicta fortiora,si dicta Latina
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  5. #4
    jwithnell's Avatar
    jwithnell is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Leesburg, VA
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked 648 Times in 400 Posts
    I like the premise! Does it address us poor souls in the pew? Surely it takes a work of grace to take someone out of an ear-bud encased, TIVO fast-forwarded week and into the hearing of God's word.
    JWithnell
    Member Bethel OPC
    Virginia
    http://learningyesican.blogspot.com/
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  6. #5
    carlgobelman's Avatar
    carlgobelman is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Vernon Hills, IL
    Posts
    284
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    75
    Thanked 90 Times in 63 Posts
    T. David Gordon was interviewed on the White Horse Inn, and it's a great interview; it's what turned me on to the book (which is sitting on my Amazon wish list waiting to be bought).

    Audio here: White Horse Inn (Dr. Michael Horton) - Broadcast Archives
    Carl Gobelman
    Long Grove Community Church (Evangelical)
    Vernon Hills, IL
    Blog: http://newcreationperson.wordpress.com

    "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  7. #6
    TaylorOtwell's Avatar
    TaylorOtwell is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fort Smith, AR
    Posts
    1,117
    Thanks
    275
    Thanked 611 Times in 254 Posts
    I also thoroughly enjoyed the book.
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  8. #7
    py3ak's Avatar
    py3ak is offline. Use Bat Lip Balm
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    7,434
    Thanks
    212
    Thanked 2,901 Times in 1,597 Posts
    I haven't read the book but would like to point out that misreading and incompetence at communication both existed long before there was such a thing as a gramophone. A media fast doesn't turn an insensitive reader into a critical genius.
    Ruben
    Moderator
    F.P.C.I.
    Indiana

    Prosperity is the blessing of the Old Testament; adversity is the blessing of the New; which carrieth the greater benediction, and the clearer revelation of God's favour.
    Francis Bacon, "Of Adversity"

    Board Rules - Signature Requirements - Suggestions?

    Calvinistas Conversando
    Teología en Mexico
    The Howling Wilderness
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  9. #8
    Jon Peters's Avatar
    Jon Peters is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Folsom, CA
    Posts
    722
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 308 Times in 178 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by py3ak View Post
    I haven't read the book but would like to point out that misreading and incompetence at communication both existed long before there was such a thing as a gramophone. A media fast doesn't turn an insensitive reader into a critical genius.
    Is that even what the book is advocating?
    Jon Peters
    Member, Reformation Fellowship (OPC) (Roseville, CA)
    Folsom, CA
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  10. #9
    py3ak's Avatar
    py3ak is offline. Use Bat Lip Balm
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    7,434
    Thanks
    212
    Thanked 2,901 Times in 1,597 Posts
    The basic thesis is that the electronic media have so shaped our culture that preachers cannot read the text with understanding, provide order and flow in their sermons, preach Christ, exposit the text, or provide instruction.
    You tell me.
    Ruben
    Moderator
    F.P.C.I.
    Indiana

    Prosperity is the blessing of the Old Testament; adversity is the blessing of the New; which carrieth the greater benediction, and the clearer revelation of God's favour.
    Francis Bacon, "Of Adversity"

    Board Rules - Signature Requirements - Suggestions?

    Calvinistas Conversando
    Teología en Mexico
    The Howling Wilderness
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  11. #10
    Jon Peters's Avatar
    Jon Peters is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Folsom, CA
    Posts
    722
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 308 Times in 178 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by py3ak View Post
    The basic thesis is that the electronic media have so shaped our culture that preachers cannot read the text with understanding, provide order and flow in their sermons, preach Christ, exposit the text, or provide instruction.
    You tell me.
    The thesis points out the problem not the solution so I can't tell you yet.
    Jon Peters
    Member, Reformation Fellowship (OPC) (Roseville, CA)
    Folsom, CA
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  12. #11
    py3ak's Avatar
    py3ak is offline. Use Bat Lip Balm
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    7,434
    Thanks
    212
    Thanked 2,901 Times in 1,597 Posts
    And I in turn was pointing out in two ways that the problem existed before the putative cause.
    Ruben
    Moderator
    F.P.C.I.
    Indiana

    Prosperity is the blessing of the Old Testament; adversity is the blessing of the New; which carrieth the greater benediction, and the clearer revelation of God's favour.
    Francis Bacon, "Of Adversity"

    Board Rules - Signature Requirements - Suggestions?

    Calvinistas Conversando
    Teología en Mexico
    The Howling Wilderness
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  13. #12
    Answerman's Avatar
    Answerman is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    696
    Thanks
    99
    Thanked 142 Times in 87 Posts
    Does the book deal with how education has changed throughout history? IMO, this is a very critical aspect of this problem.
    David Morrow
    Faith Community Church
    Kansas City, MO
    http://presupposetheism.blogspot.com
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  14. #13
    nleshelman's Avatar
    nleshelman is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,650
    Thanks
    316
    Thanked 770 Times in 409 Posts
    I wrote a review for it that will be in an upcoming, Reformed Presbyterian Witness.

    I argue that this book should be required reading by all pastors and anyone who desires to be one. Preaching is SO BAD is many reformed and presbyterian churches!

    The book is so convicting. Get it!
    Pastor Nathan Eshelman, Los Angeles, CA
    Reformed Presbyterian Church

    PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS
    Los Angeles Reformed Presbyterian Church
    RPCLA Sermons Online
    Puritan Reformed Seminary
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  15. #14
    Jon Peters's Avatar
    Jon Peters is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Folsom, CA
    Posts
    722
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 308 Times in 178 Posts
    Just curious, is anyone turned off by this book because the author is a Klinean?
    Jon Peters
    Member, Reformation Fellowship (OPC) (Roseville, CA)
    Folsom, CA
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  16. #15
    greenbaggins's Avatar
    greenbaggins is offline now. Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hague, North Dakota
    Posts
    3,204
    Thanks
    1,009
    Thanked 2,619 Times in 897 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by py3ak View Post
    And I in turn was pointing out in two ways that the problem existed before the putative cause.
    Yes, misreading and miscommunication certainly existed before the electronic media. And Gordon doesn't pan the electronic media. However, the culture has moved from being a reading culture to being a visual culture (Gordon is basing his thesis on some of what Neil Postman has written). This means that the preaching of the Word has fallen on hard times, since many preachers feel that they have to compete with the entertainment industry in order to survive. The electronic media problem, as Gordon sees it, is that people can write things without very much thought put into them; they can IM, text message, etc., without carefully crafting a flow of thought and a logical order. Therefore, to be logical and orderly in writing a sermon requires doing something that not very many people do on a regular basis. He advocates doing anything (even using electronic media, if necessary!) that requires one to lay out an orderly arrangement of thought. This orderly arrangement not only has logic to it, but it also has a flow. Order and flow are necessary to a good sermon, argues Gordon. And the order and flow have to stem from the biblical text itself.

    He also advocates reading classic literature, so that one can get into the habit of close reading the texts. He argues that the way communication happens today does not prejudice pastors in favor of close reading of texts, but rather of reading the text simply to confirm what is already in one's mind. I think Gordon definitely has some valid points to raise here.
    Rev. Lane Keister
    Teaching Elder, PCA, North Dakota (working out of bounds in a CRC and an RCA church)
    http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com
    http://brahmsgreenglove.blogspot.com
    http://accenttranslation.blogspot.com
    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to greenbaggins For This Useful Post:

    christianyouth (10-09-2009)

  18. #16
    greenbaggins's Avatar
    greenbaggins is offline now. Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hague, North Dakota
    Posts
    3,204
    Thanks
    1,009
    Thanked 2,619 Times in 897 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Peters View Post
    Just curious, is anyone turned off by this book because the author is a Klinean?
    His Klinean tendencies hardly show up in this book. The closest one could come to it is to see that he believes in preaching Christ from all of Scripture. But that is hardly unique to Kline.
    Rev. Lane Keister
    Teaching Elder, PCA, North Dakota (working out of bounds in a CRC and an RCA church)
    http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com
    http://brahmsgreenglove.blogspot.com
    http://accenttranslation.blogspot.com
    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69