Hi:

Is it right to bring up the subject of Hell as a means of exhortation to the congregation? I heard one person say that it is not right because it gives a wrong motivation to people to believe in Jesus. His argument was something like "they should be motivated by love, and not fear."

What thinkest you?

Blessings,

Rob

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In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.

Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO RPCNA
Student at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Pittsburgh PA
Never be afraid to do something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.

A moot point for the most part. Hell has virtually disappeared from the landscape of preaching in America. I just downloaded D. Thomas' message on hell from last year's GPTS theology conference and am dying to hear it!

Jesus said more about hell than heaven. Of course it is appropriate to preach! However, I think it was Spurgeon who said one should never preach on hell without tears in one's eyes.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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You know it has been said by them of old
It is easier to catch flies with honey.

So only preach the sweet things and esp. to professing believers because you do not want to cause them any fear of God or diminish their comfort, no keep them at ease in zion and speak only peaceful things like Peter did when he spoke in the churches:

2 Peter 2:22

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8(for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds) — 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." NKJV


What you might do is read them these verses below and ask them if they were a shepherd would they ignore this or warn the people ?

Ezek 33:7-9
8 When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 9 Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. NKJV

Ezek 34:7 'Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 8 "As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock" — 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the LORD! 10 Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them." NKJV

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DonP

Ignoring hell would be giving an incomplete package of truth. We are told to give the whole counsel of God. We need to train up the next generation without distorting the truth by putting undue emphasis on one topic and diminishing others.

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Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25

Love with no fear (fear of the Lord) is fortuitous. If there is no fear, then you are left with 'Jesus is my buddy' and his Lordship is forsaken. Preach hell and often so that we can better know how and why we love the Lord.

Theognome

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Bill Cunningham
Covenant Reformed Church, URC
Kansas City
There are three kinds of people- those who can count, and those who can't.

So one would never preach on Hell in this person's ideal church? Christ seemed to think it was alright to preach hell to His disciples, so if this person has a problem with preaching Hell he has a problem with Christ and should take it up with Him.

One should preach on Hell just as he ought to preach any subject if it comes up in the regular preaching through the text of Scripture. It is not a subject to be avoided, because it is Biblical truth - in fact to skip or gloss over the Biblical treatment of eternal punishment would be a dereliction of duty for a minister of the Word.

Is it a motivator to come to Christ? Indeed, insofaras it is part of a true declaration of the reality of God's judgment, and quite frankly there is nothing wrong with a person being motivated by a true declaration of his eternal state should he reject Christ as Lord. I'm sure that it is the case that some people have been brought over the edge by the illumination of the Holy Spirit upon the texts of Scripture that speak of Hell.

Short answer? NO, it is NOT wrong to preach Hell. Hell can be improperly preached, to be sure, just as can any doctrine - but it is certainly no sin nor any error to preach the doctrine from the pulpit.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



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I agree, Bill. Understanding hell helps us understand God's love for us, and only enhances our faith and obedience to Him. If our faith is motivated by fear of hell, then it is ultimately selfish and spurious. But if understanding hell gives us an understanding of both God's love and His justice, it only serves to increase our love and desire for Him.

I also agree with Todd, namely that hell should be preached on as it arises in Scripture, and should by no means be avoided.

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Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

I'd pay less attention to advice from friends who aren't reformed.

The one who prays the sinners prayer because of a sermon on love is no closer to heaven than one who prays the sinners prayer because of the sermon on hell. Folks aren't motivated to believe in Jesus because of the words of the preacher. They are motivated to believe in Jesus because of the work of the Holy Spirit.

So pray before speaking, and then boldly proclaim the full gospel, both the good news and the bad news.

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Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas

The more I know about hell, the more I love God, am thankful to Him and feel I owe my whole life all my days and hours to Him.
I was as good as dead and would have had no life were it not for Him, I owe Him all.

The more I know of my sin, the more I love God.

I fear these people who say do not preach much on sin and hell have not been born anew of the Spirit.

Luke 7:47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."
NKJV

Hell is a most appropriate topic for church. HOWEVER! There are ways to preach on hell that are simply disturbing! If you have a smug smile on your face, if you are light-hearted about the damned, or if you laugh about the reprobate and how this life is just a waiting room to eternal torment, you have crossed into something ungodly, IMO. Judgment must be preached, but we must be on guard to preach it in a godly, sober way. Again, just my opinion.

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Andrew Thornquist My Photo Album
Calvinistic Baptist
Ukiah, California
To follow Christ was the best decision God made for me!

Well I tell you to this day when I read Jonathan Edwards sermons, I am disturbed.

And though I am still filled with fear before God and driven to God by those sermons and may even question if they are they overly harsh, I think that most men today have over corrected way tooooo far.

A little JE and Rolphe Barnard style preaching is just what this world needs.

They have lost all fear of God and His power and judgment on them.

They are like those at Babel who will have a God they want, that fits their desires.

I for one would like to disturb them.

And I say if the preaching of hell disturbs you, then maybe you need disturbing; all it can do to a converted person is drive them more to God for a closer more sanctified mortified walk.
Is this such a bad thing?

And what it can do for the unconverted is send them to running to church for their lives.

So did JE have a tear in his eye when he preached? I don't know but from reading his departing sermon and letters it sure seemed like he cared that his people not go to hell. And he felt some were.
He cared more for them than himself. That is selfless love.

The care he showed for His flock to warn them, shows he cared more than many ministers today who only bring comfort to those in who are worldly, not growing much in spirituality and continue in sin.

There are wrong motivations to believe in Christ? What's their source for that statement? If they actually have a sound one I'll be surprised.

Anything can bring someone to faith an repentance in Christ, including a warning about Hell. With the amount the topic is covered in Scripture, I'd say even 'especially' a warning about Hell.

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Andrew DeShazo
Husband of Kathryn
Father of Phillip-Giles B. DeShazo
Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"From out of the depth of unbroken Infinfity arose the Question, "Who am I?" And to that Question there is the answer, "I am God!" -Meher Baba, died 1969.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Christ, died 33 AD, ressurected three days later.

Thanks for mentioning this sermon/lecture. It is truly a great message on hell.

Judging by Dr. Thomas, I would say that if one could preach on hell with a slight accent derived from anywhere in the British isles, this would solve all apparently problems on preaching difficult texts. Right now, I'm practicing sounding like Sinclair Ferguson.

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Tim Phillips
Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
Louisville, KY
Husband of Scottish Lass
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"Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin

I have referenced hell and satan on more than one occasion in the past few months, something I gather is rare to non-existent in mainline churches. I think I raised quite a few eyebrows when I pointed to the literalness of hell and satan in both my sermons and the adult Sunday School class I teach. Maybe, I should do more, but like others have said, I tend to bring it up when it comes up in Scripture and/or the Sunday School discussion. This may be off topic, but our Sunday School classes have become more biblically oriented, in my opinion, since I convinced the Christian Education Committee to drop the PCUSA adult curriculum and give the Associate Reformed Presbyterian (ARP) denomination's adult curriculum a trial run. People like it much better, and we've have decided to use it exclusively at this point. Biblical truths like hell, satan, TULIP, the confessions, and the Gospel as a whole rather than just the social gospel, are now much more discussed among the students than with the previous curriculum. Plus, it enables me to lead them to Biblical truths gently and firmly without having to outright show week after week how the old curriculum was not being Biblical or being selective in Scripture readings. This has encouraged me to be more bold in proclamation from the pulpit regarding issues like hell, judgement, etc. All of which are not popular topics in the mainline as most everyone knows on the PB.

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Chris
Teaching Elder (PCUSA)
West Virginia
"Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Habakkuk 3:17-18)

"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"
proverbs 9,10
And it says that we should fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Hell Matt 10,28

So just because we have been preaching for several decades now to believe in Christ because it will make you and your life better does not mean that that is the way to go.
I think we should tell people to believe in Christ so they do not go to Hell, wich will be the truth not like what we have been saying about "a better life" that makes us sound like Osteen apostles

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Frankly, I'm more concerned about the appropriateness of preaching the "love of God" in the sloppy agape way some do today than a genuinely biblical exposition of a text dealing with hell. The first is an emotional sop and an anesthetic numbing us to our true situation; the second is the word of the living God used instrumentally by the Holy Spirit to reconcile sinners to himself where they will never need to experience the ultimate sanction.

Thanks for the ARP plug!

Your welcome. Actually, I did a fairly thorough search of adult Sunday School curriculum, and the ARP's was rock solid imo.

are you talking adult or all

Why would they feel the need to be saved if they do not know from what they are being saved?

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

I only researched the adult curriculum. The folks at ARP were very gracious and sent us several samples of the adult books and teacher's guides for us to evaluate.

The ARP only publishes material for adults. For younger folks, the Great Commission Publications curriculum is generally the recommended choice. It's excellent curriculum, and the consensus seems to be that there is no point reinventing the wheel.

Enough thread hijacking! Now back to the topic of hell!

My favorite theological/biblical word is "propitiation." How can one talk about a biblical concept like this without at least discussing the concept of the holy wrath of God (aside from a water-down use of "expiation")?

we used GCP too when I was in the OPC. Now We are writing our own for HS.

Love propitiation and Predestination
Jude 4

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

Acts 13:48
And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
NKJV

Rom 9:22-24
22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles
NASB

Don't let the "good people" in South Charleston find out...

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Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Member Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA

Deo Vindice

Don't get me started!!! Sorry about hijacking the thread again.

Folks,

May I commend to you the preaching of Pastor Edward (Ted) Donnelly on this topic. His first address (of four) covers the reason we should study and preach the Biblical doctrine of Hell. (There is also a conference two years after this one where he preaches four sermons on the Biblical doctrine of Heaven)

The biblical doctrine of Hell
SermonAudio.com - Grace Reformed Baptist Church

Matt

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Matthew Glover
Reformed Presbyterian Church of Australia

I have a 6 part series entitled "Sin and Hell," which is comprised of the following:

1. The Origin of Sin

2. The Sinfulness of Sin

3. Degrees of Sin

4. The Basis for Judgment in Hell

5. The Biblical Doctrine of Hell

6. The Eternality of Hell

It's available at donkistler.org

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Dr. Don Kistler

We stand condemned and Hell is our destiny, apart from Christ. We need to understand that.

Of course only the Spirit can regenerate us and bring us to faith, but our gospel preaching should make the issues clear.

To simply say that "all are sinners" (and never mention it again) only minimizes the issue. The reality and significance of sin, condemnation , and eternal torment, are Scriptural warrants for faith in Christ as our only hope.

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Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA