When was the first Denomination?

Bladestunner316 · #1 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 11:23 PM

and what was the first denomination?

Pilgrim · #2 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 11:32 PM

Blade,

Don't you know that the Baptist church started with John the Baptist?

Seriously, denominations as we know them today in a situation where the freedom to choose a church was was widespread probably started in the USA with disestablishment since prior to that there were state churches. Or you could go back to the English Separatists or dissenters who separated from the Church of England or those in other countries who separated from the established church. It really depends on definition, I suppose. You could go back to the Great Schism between Rome and the Eastern Orthodox 11th Century.

Christian denomination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DMcFadden · #3 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 12:14 AM

Whew! I'm sure glad you attributed the origin of baptists to the appearance of John the Baptist. Most of the baptists I know are convinced they trace directly to Jesus.

jaybird0827 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 05:32 AM

I think it was much earlier than that.

Cain v. Abel Gen. 4:3-5

Pharisees v. Sadducees Acts 23:6-8

Gnostics I John 2:19

Nicolaitans Rev. 2:6

Semper Fidelis · #5 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 06:23 AM

There's the Judaizing denomination, the Gnostic denomination, ....

Within the RCC, there were several orders for many centuries. There's more theological diversity within the RCC than among most Evangelicals.

Pilgrim · #6 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

There's the Judaizing denomination, the Gnostic denomination, ....

Within the RCC, there were several orders for many centuries. There's more theological diversity within the RCC than among most Evangelicals.

That's definitely true. And sometimes it causes RC apologists to stumble. I used to debate one in various forums. He would describe RC practice in the USA but would simply brush aside the differing (and more traditional RC) practices in other countries, claiming ignorance, etc.

JTDyck · #7 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Whew! I'm sure glad you attributed the origin of baptists to the appearance of John the Baptist. Most of the baptists I know are convinced they trace directly to Jesus.

Actually, Mennonites go back even further than that -- to John's mother Ana

JTDyck · #8 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:17 AM

On a more serious note...

Wouldn't one of the first formal denominations within the Church have been the division between Israel and Judah? It was certainly sectarian in nature and involved the people of the Lord on both sides. God sent prophets to both of these "denominations," even though He did have his eye upon Judah in a special providence and historical purpose.

Brad · #9 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:22 AM

Started pretty early in the NT Church:

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

LadyFlynt · #10 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTDyck

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Whew! I'm sure glad you attributed the origin of baptists to the appearance of John the Baptist. Most of the baptists I know are convinced they trace directly to Jesus.

Actually, Mennonites go back even further than that -- to John's mother Ana

John's Mother was Elisabeth.

Daniel Ritchie · #11 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

When was the first Denomination?

The Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland; the rest are break-aways from us.

Coram Deo · #12 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:38 AM

Brother, I would not call them denominations..... They were not splits on doctrinal matters but were merely party spirit and men followers... I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, etc.... He makes reference to "wisdom of words" in verse 17... An example of this would be... 3 pastors are in the same church.. the congregation is split into parties... I am of Pastor A because of his charismatic personality, another says I am of Pastor B because of his elegance with words... Another party says I am of Pastor C because I like how he talks with body language, etc ,etc, etc....

I see nothing in the verse that speaks a bout denominations especially for important doctrinal matters.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Started pretty early in the NT Church:

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Coram Deo · #13 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:40 AM

Weren't the first three church splits on doctrinal matters in the New Covenant Era, Turtillianites, followed Montanism, followed by the Donatist split?

ADKing · #14 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunaer

Weren't the first three church splits on doctrinal matters in the New Covenant Era, Turtillianites, followed Montanism, followed by the Donatist split?

The early 3rd century saw a number of rival factions set up separate ecclesiastical structures.

1. Montanism (although some Montanists continued to exist in the catholic church even after it was condemned as a heresy). Tertullian was for a period of his life a Montanist.

2. Hippolytus and Novatian both led separate "denominations" (to use an anachronism) in Rome over disputes both doctrinal and moral with the bishop of Rome.

3. A little later on in the 3rd century the Donatists in North Africa established a separate communion from the catholics which persisted for quite a long time. There were some eras when the Donatists even had the upper-hand in North Africa over the catholics. Constantine and his successors did much to try to bring them back into the catholic fold or else extirpate them.

Of course from there, as you know, there story gets more and more fractured...

I suppose I should add, as an afterthought that Marcion was accused of establishing separate churches in the east after his excommunication in Rome.

ChristopherPaul · #15 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 10:15 AM

As far as recognized denominations as we know them today where people intentionally left an organized orthodox group and confession to start a new organized and orthodox group with a new confession, I would think the first would be around the time of the Protestant reformation. The Reformation inadvertently caused the church to realize or to suppose that a new church could be started as soon as a conflict or disagreement arose. Mainstream fear of the clergy was lost with the Reformation. In my opinion, the binding fear towards the Roman church was unbiblical, yet the lack of any fear/reverence among many of the offshoots of the Reformation churches is just as unbiblical.

When I say "orthodox" above I mean Christian/Trinitarian (Gnostics, Mormans, and the like are not denominations but separate religions altogether i.e. non-Christian).

JTDyck · #16 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFlynt

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTDyck

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Whew! I'm sure glad you attributed the origin of baptists to the appearance of John the Baptist. Most of the baptists I know are convinced they trace directly to Jesus.

Actually, Mennonites go back even further than that -- to John's mother Ana

John's Mother was Elisabeth.

Technically

I guess it's more of a historical/cultural joke:
Ana Baptist.