The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > The Church > Church History

Church History Discuss the History of the Christian Church

» Online Users: 57
5 members and 52 guests
christianyouth, CovenantalBaptist, rjlynam, Tumbleweed
Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 09:42 AM
Southern Presbyterian's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wytheville, Virginia
Posts: 2,629
Thanks: 668
Thanked 261 Times in 207 Posts
A Definition of "Reformed" I've Not Heard Before

One of the men in our church was relating a conversation he had with a co-worker when he was inviting his friend to our church. (The name of our church is Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church.) This guy (who turns out to be marginally PCUSA) says that he didn't know if he would want to visit a Reformed Presbyterian church because reformed means that "one can believe whatever they desire and therefore had no standards to guide ones life by"[a paraphrase of what he said].

When we were deciding on names for our church we chose to put Reformed in the name specifically because we felt it would tell folks something about what we believe. Were we wrong? Has anyone else run into this or a similar understanding of the word Reformed?
__________________
~James Helbert~, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS

TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn
"Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 09:50 AM
Ivan's Avatar
Bubba
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Beloit, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5,495
Thanks: 481
Thanked 259 Times in 205 Posts
I've never heard anyone ever give a definition of Reformed like that. People believe what they want to believe about a name (or any word for that matter). The fellow in question has apparently received some very bad information or he has a vivid imagination.
__________________
Ivan Schoen, Pastor
Maranatha Baptist Church
Poplar Grove, Illinois USA

http://maranatha-sbc.org/
"When a denomination begins to consider doctrine divisive, theology troublesome, and convictions inconvenient, consider that denomination on its way to a well-deserved death." Dr. Albert Mohler, President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ivan For This Useful Post:
Southern Presbyterian (05-13-2008)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 09:56 AM
Virginia Marine's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 33
Thanks: 5
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
I found a great (but LONG) definition of "refomed" from a Professor Byron Curtis, a professor at Geneva College. He breaks the definition into four parts. To be Reformed is:

To confess the consensus of the five first centuries of the church:
Classic theism: One omnipotent, benevolent God, distinct from creation.
Nicene and Chalcedonian Trinitarianism: one God in three eternally existent persons, equal in power and glory.
Christ, the God-Man, the one mediator between God & the human race, incarnate, crucified, resurrected, ascended, & coming again.
Humanity created in the image of God, yet tragically fallen & profoundly in need of restoration to God through Christ.
The Visible Church: the community of the redeemed, indwelt y the Holy Spirit; the mystical body of Christ on earth.
The one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
The Sacraments: visible signs and seals of the grace of God, ministering Christ’s love to us in our deep need.
The Christian life: characterized by the prime theological virtues of faith, hope, and love.
It would be correct to say that this is a statement of the Protestant faith more than it is a statement of the Reformed faith. From this list we see that Reformed Christians adhere to all the foundational beliefs taught in the Bible. These beliefs were the foundation of the early church and are based on the teachings of the Bible as interpreted by the apostles and early church fathers. Many of these beliefs were changed or lost as the Catholic Church grew in power and authority from the fifth century onwards. Throughout history there were pockets of non-Catholic believers who held to many or all of these points of doctrine, but they were largely lost until the time of the Reformation.

To confess the four solas:
The authority of Scripture: sola scriptura (Scripture alone)
the basis of salvation: Sola Gratia (Grace alone)
the means of salvation: Sola Fide (Faith alone)
the merit of salvation: Solus Christus (Christ alone)
Again, these form the basis for Protestantism as much as they do for the Reformed tradition. These are the principles that drove the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century and separated it from the Roman Catholic Church. These four points of doctrine are based entirely on the Bible and were the theological driving force behind the newly formed Protestant movement.

To confess the distinctives of the Reformed faith:
In salvation: monergism not synergism. God alone saves. Such monergism implies T.U.L.I.P., the Five Points of Calvinism from the Synod of Dordt:
T = Total Depravity U = Unconditional Election L = Limited Atonement, or, better, Particular Redemption I = Irresistible Grace P = Perseverence and Preservation of the Saints
These five distinct points of doctrine are also known as the five points of Calvinism as they were first articulated by John Calvin after the Reformation was in full-swing. They are based entirely on the Bible. When people speak of being Reformed these five points of doctrine are most often what they are referring to. Most evangelical (non-Reformed) churches do not hold to all of these points. Some hold to two or three (and occasionally even four), but most reject them in favor of Arminian theology. For a more in-depth look at what constitutes Reformed vs Arminian theology, see my four part article which begins here.

Other Reformed Distinctives:
Professor Curtis goes on to list other points of doctrine he believes are Reformed distinctives. They include: The Regulative Principle of Worship, Covenant theology and Life is religion (Christians have neither jobs nor careers; they have vocations (callings)). I would not consider adherence to these principles necessary to consider oneself Reformed and I suspect the majority of Reformed Christians would agree with me.

Finally: in everything, Soli Deo Gloria - to God alone be the glory in all things.
This is, once more, something all Christians would claim, either explicitly or implicitly. In all areas of life we are to give glory to God.

SO, in short PROCLAIM that you are REFORMED...
__________________
LtCol Jay Storms
New Life in Christ Church (PCA)
Spotsylvania, VA

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
Winston Churchill
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Virginia Marine For This Useful Post:
Daniel Ritchie (05-13-2008), Southern Presbyterian (05-13-2008)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:09 AM
fredtgreco's Avatar
PCA Pastor
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 7,509
Thanks: 73
Thanked 781 Times in 373 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Presbyterian View Post
One of the men in our church was relating a conversation he had with a co-worker when he was inviting his friend to our church. (The name of our church is Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church.) This guy (who turns out to be marginally PCUSA) says that he didn't know if he would want to visit a Reformed Presbyterian church because reformed means that "one can believe whatever they desire and therefore had no standards to guide ones life by"[a paraphrase of what he said].

When we were deciding on names for our church we chose to put Reformed in the name specifically because we felt it would tell folks something about what we believe. Were we wrong? Has anyone else run into this or a similar understanding of the word Reformed?
James,

This man might have "Reformed Christianity" confused with "Reformed Judaism." In the latter case, "Reformed" means exactly what he said.
__________________
Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fredtgreco For This Useful Post:
jaybird0827 (05-13-2008), Southern Presbyterian (05-13-2008)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:17 AM
Southern Presbyterian's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wytheville, Virginia
Posts: 2,629
Thanks: 668
Thanked 261 Times in 207 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtgreco View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Presbyterian View Post
One of the men in our church was relating a conversation he had with a co-worker when he was inviting his friend to our church. (The name of our church is Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church.) This guy (who turns out to be marginally PCUSA) says that he didn't know if he would want to visit a Reformed Presbyterian church because reformed means that "one can believe whatever they desire and therefore had no standards to guide ones life by"[a paraphrase of what he said].

When we were deciding on names for our church we chose to put Reformed in the name specifically because we felt it would tell folks something about what we believe. Were we wrong? Has anyone else run into this or a similar understanding of the word Reformed?
James,

This man might have "Reformed Christianity" confused with "Reformed Judaism." In the latter case, "Reformed" means exactly what he said.
I had thought that perhaps this was the case. Perhaps this is a comment on our "global civilization" or "national identity" because Southwest VA is not known for its dominate Jewish culture.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:25 AM
Grymir's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 1,116
Thanks: 187
Thanked 146 Times in 121 Posts
Hi Southern! In your OP, you did say the guy was PCUSA. Maybe his experience with a PCUSA church lead him to that, because that sounds so much like the experiential teachings in the church.
__________________
Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Grymir For This Useful Post:
Southern Presbyterian (05-13-2008)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:29 AM
Theogenes's Avatar
Puritanboard Sophomore
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ND
Posts: 511
Thanks: 19
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
How about BIBLICAL!
Didn't Spurgeon say that (as well as B.B. Warfield)?
Jim
__________________
Jim
Elder, Harvest Reformed Church (RCUS)
http://www.harvestreformedchurch.org/
http://tbftgoggi.wordpress.com/

Upon a life I did not live; upon a death I did not die, Another's death, Another's life, I'd rest my soul eternally
Omnia dicta fortiora,si dicta Latina
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:32 AM
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Fort Branch, Indiana
Posts: 470
Thanks: 54
Thanked 276 Times in 149 Posts
When I was a baptist and began learning about Calvinism and the "Reformed" faith - I had a presuppositional definition of "reformed" similar to what this man said. Reformed was a synonym for liberal. I didn't know "conservative" Presbyterians existed - I presumed all Presbyterians were "reformed," hence all "reformed" were liberal.
__________________
Thomas Weddle
Member, Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church
Evansville, Indiana
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:36 AM
joshua's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texarkana (Border of Texas and Arkansas)
Posts: 14,918
Blog Entries: 15
Thanks: 1,296
Thanked 1,470 Times in 776 Posts
Upon hearing that our church practices church discipline, instead of Texarkana Reformed Baptist Church, we were referred to as Texarkana Deformed Baptist Church.
__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloλ's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)

Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:40 AM
R. Scott Clark's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 1,693
Thanks: 0
Thanked 262 Times in 99 Posts
How about: What the Reformed and Presbyterian Churches confess in the Heidelberg Catechism, Belgic Confession, Canons of Dort, and in the Westminster Standards?
__________________
R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Associate Professor of Historical and Systematic Theology

"For Christ, His Gospel, and His Church"
Associate Pastor
Oceanside URC
The Heidelblog
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:56 AM
Southern Presbyterian's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wytheville, Virginia
Posts: 2,629
Thanks: 668
Thanked 261 Times in 207 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas2007 View Post
When I was a baptist and began learning about Calvinism and the "Reformed" faith - I had a presuppositional definition of "reformed" similar to what this man said. Reformed was a synonym for liberal. I didn't know "conservative" Presbyterians existed - I presumed all Presbyterians were "reformed," hence all "reformed" were liberal.
As a Baptist, I had similar misgivings, but they focused on the word Presbyterian rather than reformed.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 01:19 PM
DMcFadden's Avatar
McFadderator Minimizing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Gabriel, CA
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 717
Thanked 1,071 Times in 641 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas2007 View Post
When I was a baptist and began learning about Calvinism and the "Reformed" faith - I had a presuppositional definition of "reformed" similar to what this man said. Reformed was a synonym for liberal. I didn't know "conservative" Presbyterians existed - I presumed all Presbyterians were "reformed," hence all "reformed" were liberal.
I like the explanation that he probably is confusing Reformed Judaism with Reformed Protestantism. However, there is another possibility. Some of the more liberal "Reformed" denominations are anything but conservative and do permit you to "believe" just about anything. Certainly not any of you all here on PB!
__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64