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Church History discuss Bob Jones U, Jack Hyles, Sword of the Lord, John R. Rice in the The Church forums; Have any of you ever heard of a school called Bob Jones U? What do you think of this school? Have you ever heard of ...

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    spurgeon is offline. Inactive User
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    Bob Jones U, Jack Hyles, Sword of the Lord, John R. Rice

    Have any of you ever heard of a school called Bob Jones U? What do you think of this school? Have you ever heard of a newspaper called the Sword Of The Lord? What do you think of it? Have you ever heard of a preacher by the name of Jack Hyles? What do you think? Have you ever heard of John R. Rice? What do you think?
    Andrew M. Nelson

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    Joshua is offline. _
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    Andrew, welcome to the board!

    Bob Jones University is a fundamentalist Christian school akin to the likes of Pensacola Christian College, etc. The school is neither Calvinistic or Reformed in it's tenents or intentions. The Sword of the Lord is also in the hands of rabid anti-Calvinists, mistaking biblical Calvinism for Hyper-Calvinism. Jack Hyles is associated with the Southern Baptist Convention, right? Wasn't he president at some point? Or is he pastor of that large SBC Church in Plano, TX (Prestonwood)? John R. Rice, I believe, is associated with Sword of the Lord and I have read anti-calvinistic literature from him.

    Please click on the links below in my signature to get signature rules, etc. Welcome again!

    [Edited on 4-13-2005 by joshua]
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    sastark's Avatar
    sastark is offline. Puritanboard Graduate
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    Welcome, Andrew!

    Bob Jones = Evil.
    Seth Stark
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    VirginiaHuguenot is offline. Puritanboard Librarian
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    Originally posted by sastark
    Welcome, Andrew!

    Bob Jones = Evil.
    Welcome to the PB!
    Andrew

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    SteelYankee is offline. Inactive User
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    Not exactly

    Jack Hyles is most decidedly NOT Southern Baptist. He is staunchly Independent Baptist of the fundamentalist sort (First Baptist, Hammond, Indiana).

    KJV only. HUGE church. There was big scandal over alleged sexual immorality (not sure of accuracy of accusations). Also think they are having a lot of trouble with his successor - Jack Schaap (Hyle's son-in-law).

    Go to Jackhyles.net for more information/propaganda.
    Go to hylesanderson.com for more on his college
    Go to fbchammond.com for info on church

    By the way, the pastor of Prestonwood Baptist (SBC) is Jack Graham.
    Jeff Spry
    Minister of Education
    Western Avenue Baptist Church (SBC)
    Statesville, NC

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    Joshua is offline. _
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    Thanks for the clarification, Steel!
    Josh
    CCRPC, RPCGA

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    ABondSlaveofChristJesus is offline. Inactive User
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    Rice makes my skin crawl.
    Tim Potts
    Siloam Springs, Arkansas
    Member of Covenant Presbyterian Church (PCA)
    Student at John Brown University
    -Let the church change the world and rather than the world change the church-

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    Dan.... is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
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    sastark:

    Bob Jones = Evil.

    Please provide some evidence for this statement.


    [Edited on 4-14-2005 by Dan....]
    Dan Harris. -member of New Covenant Community OPC, New Lenox, IL

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    LadyFlynt is offline. Inactive User
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    Hyles makes my skin crawl...unfortunately the church I went to here in IL as a preteen was associated with them (the one I attended in Guam was associated with Pensecola). He was Independent Fundamental Baptist (that is the term they use). If you want to speak of abuse loosely Bill Gothard style...there it is! If a man cheat on his wife get rid of the wife and say nothing about the man. If a child is assaulted don't dare say a word against the father. His book on child rearing is SCAREY (I've heard complaints about other conservative sources, but they are fine...this book is NOT)....children only allowed to have bland tasting food so they don't lust for that with tempts the taste buds, a child must be spanked with regularity and spanked till their spirit is broken, etc!!! Grrr!!!

    If you do a websearch you will find audio tracks of the reports Chicago news did one his "ministry" and the scandals around it (since they run a huge bus ministry in that city). Hyles NEVER denied his wife being in those types of magazines, never denied his continuting adulterous affair with the wife of his top man...instead he told his ppl to support him and that it was sinful to listen to the media and sinful for the media to be discussing such sin.

    We have an aquaintance that graduated from Hyles-Anderson, and his integrity is not up to par. He laughs over how a Reformed Baptist church has hired a pastor claiming to be Reformed but is really IFB and is trying to change the ppl to IFB (then calling the ppl stubborn for not wanting to change). This is underhanded and deceitful. Christ does not want us to handle things in this manner.

    Sword of the Lord is put out by the most conservative and "old-timey" of the IFB. (Not all IFB are like Hyles) Naturally they do not follow the Reformed faith. They are Independent, fundamental, KJV only, hell-fire preaching, pew-jumping (though they actually don't jump pews), cowboy boot wearing, (add a few more descriptions), BAPTISTS....(they actually have a song that goes like this )

    Another name that may come your way if you are looking at various groups would be Denny Kenaston who was one of two that started Charity Gospel Ministries (a pentacostal-like anabaptist movement also known as the Remnant Movement). Denny attended Hyles-Anderson and is currently supportive of Bill Gothard's ideals and practices. (we nearly went to Charity before we knew any of this or what these two organizations were really about...pray for our family...several of my in-laws are involved in it...PTL though my MIL may be leaving them!)

    Okay...informative rant off....
    JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
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    Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

    "Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

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    Baroque Norseman's Avatar
    Baroque Norseman is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
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    Is Hyles Dispensational? The reason I ask is I saw him endorsing a book on taking America back (which in one sense I am all for doing). That seems incongrous with a pessimistic eschatology.
    Jacob
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    Studied at RTS Jackson
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    LadyFlynt is offline. Inactive User
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    Dispensationals are very patriotic and don't consider their eschalogical views pessimistic...they do however consider yours either more pessimistic (if youa re amillinial) or unrealistic (if you are post millinial).
    JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
    A we n' de Ya, ho; I mak sikker; Deus juvat

    Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

    "Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

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    kevin.carroll's Avatar
    kevin.carroll is offline. Puritanboard Junior
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    Originally posted by spurgeon
    Have any of you ever heard of a school called Bob Jones U? What do you think of this school? Have you ever heard of a newspaper called the Sword Of The Lord? What do you think of it? Have you ever heard of a preacher by the name of Jack Hyles? What do you think? Have you ever heard of John R. Rice? What do you think?
    Yes to all of the above. I attended BJU while in 6th and 7th grades. All of them are classic second-generation fundamentalists. Second generation refers to the bitter, angry, never-happy-unless-fighting-or separating heirs to the original fundamentalists of the 20's and 30's. That group covered the gamut of Protestant Christianity and did a good job of defeating Modernism. Their kids, however, fell to infighting over increasingly fine points of doctrine and the movement is largely marginalized.

    Interestingly Presbyterians were very influential in the early years of fundamentalism, but no more.
    Rev. Kevin Carroll
    Currently Without Call
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    Presbyterian Church of America
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    kevin.carroll is offline. Puritanboard Junior
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    Originally posted by Draught Horse
    Is Hyles Dispensational? The reason I ask is I saw him endorsing a book on taking America back (which in one sense I am all for doing). That seems incongrous with a pessimistic eschatology.
    Yep. Dispensational. Independent. Soul-winning. Separated. KJV only. Bitter. Angry. Loud. I spent a lot of time in their camp.
    Rev. Kevin Carroll
    Currently Without Call
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    Presbyterian Church of America
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    hhtuck is offline. Inactive User
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    Woo hoo! The Sword of the Lord

    We have friends who live in what used to be a parsonage for a Baptist Church. The address must be on somebody's mailing list, because they still get The Sword of the Lord on occasion. We always have a good chuckle as we read it... until we realise that they're serious.
    Jay Tuck
    Harvest Bible Chapel
    Niles, IL

    "Let us know; let us press on to know the Lord;
    his going out is sure as the dawn;
    he will come to us as the showers,
    as the spring rains that water the earth.Ē
    Hosea 6:3

    "Yet I should not take it at all amiss, to be called a Calvinist, for distinctionís sake, though I utterly disclaim a dependence on CALVIN, or believing the doctrines which I hold, because he believed and taught them and cannot justly be charged with believing in everything just as he taught." Jonathan Edwards.

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    yeutter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus
    Rice makes my skin crawl.
    John R. Rice wrote one fun book 'Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers'

    The feminists just hated him.
    Thomas Yeutter,
    Layman
    Chiang Mai, Kingdom of Thailand
    Anglican, attending Trinity Baptist Church Chiang Mai

    Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had set his heart to seek the law of the Lord, and to do it and to, teach in Israel its statues and ordinances.

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    Baroque Norseman's Avatar
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    A lot of fundamentalists got angry with Rice at the end of his life. Didn't he recant his KJV-only views?
    Jacob
    M.A., Louisiana College
    Studied at RTS Jackson
    ARP, Louisiana

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    strangerpilgrim is offline. Inactive User
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    ¬* Above it was asked to provide proof that Bob Jones=Evil. Now, I'm reasonably sure our brother was joking when he equated BJU with evil. I wouldn't go that far, certainly. However, I do think it is a place that no reformed person should go to, or send their child to. ¬*


    The following is the review I placed on the college review board site. You can go here http://www.studentsreview.com/cgi-bin/detail.pl to read other opinions, although it looks like lately the word has been out at BJU to go to this site and swamp it, since the number of "positive" relative to "neutral" and "negative" comments has risen significantly in the last few months.

    Here goes:

    As others have stated, BJU is only a comfortable place if you are fundamentalist, dispensational Baptist. Certainly there is very little toleration for any other legitimate interpretation of the Bible. The students, in general, are unable to think outside their prescribed box, and are intolerant and unfriendly to anyone not an independent, fundamentalist Baptist. (Some from Bible churches are not given a hard time, but only as long as their Bible church is Baptist in everything but name). I was repeatedly attacked verbally for my Reformed beliefs and given no opportunity to even explain in a calm, nonargumentative manner why I might believe something different from the establishment. My brother quit after only one semester because he felt he couldn't study in an atmosphere where his roommates would bring in random people at any time to have them argue with him.

    The dorms generally involve themselves in private student matters more than can be justified by Scripture, and I frequently encountered blatantly unscriptural practices: i.e judging others (on an official level) by their works rather than taking the time to get to know their spirit in matters; encouraging students to "turn each other in" and harassment of a students by dorm administration based on second and even third hand evidence with the accused not even being allowed to see his or her accuser or find out the accusation. (By harrassment I mean being pushed to "confess," being held in the supervisor's room and not allowed to leave until, after an hour of refusing to confess they bring in a witness and find out they had the whole story wrong anyway, that kind of thing). The dormitory student leadership system was terrible; students were often able to get ahead simply by "ratting out" other students or groveling to existing student leaders or administration.

    The faculty are, for the most part, very nice, knowledgable and helpful. The education I got there was quite adequate. However, forced extracurricular activites detracted from the ability to concentrate on education. I would never go there again, nor would I recommend it to anyone. Even those from the "proper" background would not find there a chance to learn to think for themselves, solidify what they believe by studying it for themselves or learn to live in the real world as a responsible adult. Many BJU graduates do live in the real world as adults just fine: But I believe that is mainly due to their parents and good education and experience before they get to the college, not what they learned while at BJU.
    Strangerpilgrim
    Knoxville, TN
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    "Judge not the Lord by feeble sense..."

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    strangerpilgrim is offline. Inactive User
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    Let me clarify one thing: By stating "I frequently encountered blatantly unscriptural practices: i.e judging others (on an official level) by their works rather than taking the time to get to know their spirit in matters;" I did not mean the scriptural practice of looking for tangible fruit of the Spirit's indwelling. I mean watching and reporting how many times a person goes to evening church on Sunday, how many times a person volunteered for "extension" (ministries outside BJU on the weekend) without reference to the person's schedule or major requirments, how many times a week and how long each day a person had his or her "quiet times" and whether or not the person agreed in practice with every rule as well as every preference of the school.
    Strangerpilgrim
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    "Judge not the Lord by feeble sense..."

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    DocCas is offline. Inactive User
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    Posted by: spurgeon
    Have any of you ever heard of a school called Bob Jones U? What do you think of this school?
    Bob Jones University in Greenville, SC was founded my Methodist Evangelist Bob Jones Sr, who was the first president of the school. He turned the presidency over to his son, Bob Jones Jr., who turned it over to his son Bob Jones III, who just turned it over to his son Steve Jones (they must have run out of "Bobs" even though there is a Bob Jones IV he seems to have been passed over for some reason).

    As they were founded by a Methodist Evangelist (even though Jr and III converted to being Baptist) it stands to reason they are fundamentally Arminian. They bill themselves as "The Worlds Most Unusual University." They tend to be quite legalistic in their standards and code of conduct. They also tend to be quite dismissive of any and all who are not in their particular camp.
    Have you ever heard of a newspaper called the Sword Of The Lord? What do you think of it?
    The Sword of the Lord was founded by Baptist Evangelist John R. Rice in the early 1930s and at one time had a huge circulation. JRR died in 1980 and the paper was taken over by Baptist Evangelist Curtis Hutson. Upon his death it feel into the hands of Shelton Smith a Baptistic pastor from New England. Its circulation is down to about 15% of what it was under JRR. The paper was and remains solidly Arminian.
    Have you ever heard of a preacher by the name of Jack Hyles? What do you think?
    Jack Hyles was a Southern Baptist preacher educated at SBC schools who left the SBC in the 1950s and became an Independent, Fundamental Baptist. He headed up what was billed as "The worlds largest Sunday School" which was part of First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana (metro Chicago area). He built the church into a personality cult that boasted over 25,000 members with high attendances over 100,000. His leadership style was dictatorial and his preaching style was idiotic (that is a technical theological term). He died of a massive heart attack in 2001 following a period of intense scrutiny and criticism over his handing of many moral issues in the church including his relationship with one of his deacon's wives.

    Mrs. Jack Hyles (Beverly) was the only one to remain above the fray. She conducted herself admirably during the entire affair.
    Have you ever heard of John R. Rice? What do you think?
    See above.
    Posted by LadyFlynt:
    Hyles NEVER denied his wife being in those types of magazines, never denied his continuting adulterous affair with the wife of his top man...instead he told his ppl to support him and that it was sinful to listen to the media and sinful for the media to be discussing such sin.
    Don't confuse David Hyles, only son of Jack Hyles, with his father. It was the second wife of David Hyles whose wife posed for pictures in pornographic magazines.

    It was his father Jack Hyles who allegedly had a long term affair with the wife of one of his deacons.
    Posted by Draught Horse:
    Is Hyles Dispensational?
    He was, yes. Dispensational Premillennial.
    A lot of fundamentalists got angry with Rice at the end of his life. Didn't he recant his KJV-only views?
    It was the other way around. JRR wrote a booklet called "King James Fans" wherein he lambasted the KJVOs who thought the KJV was the only inspired word of God in English and therefore their final authority. That alienated a lot of Fundamental Baptists who, for the past 80 years or so, have been getting more and more involved in that idiotic heresy.
    Dr. Thomas Cassidy
    Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church of Spring Valley, California
    Professor, San Diego Baptist Theological Seminary

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    LadyFlynt is offline. Inactive User
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    Thank you for the correction, Dr Cassidy....I did mix those two up. If you do a search you can hear the actual newscasts done on the whole "affair" (Hyles and his deacon's wife) There was also a time where they had men walking around armed to "protect" Hyles I believe.
    JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
    A we n' de Ya, ho; I mak sikker; Deus juvat

    Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

    "Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

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    kevin.carroll's Avatar
    kevin.carroll is offline. Puritanboard Junior
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    Originally posted by DocCas

    Bob Jones University in Greenville, SC was founded my Methodist Evangelist Bob Jones Sr, who was the first president of the school. He turned the presidency over to his son, Bob Jones Jr., who turned it over to his son Bob Jones III, who just turned it over to his son Steve Jones (they must have run out of "Bobs" even though there is a Bob Jones IV he seems to have been passed over for some reason).
    I went to Jr. High with Bobby 4. He was a little...disruptive in his actions and attitudes, which carried into his adult life. He just wasn't "Bob Jones" material...
    Rev. Kevin Carroll
    Currently Without Call
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    Presbyterian Church of America
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    DocCas is offline. Inactive User
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    Originally posted by kevin.carroll
    I went to Jr. High with Bobby 4. He was a little...disruptive in his actions and attitudes, which carried into his adult life. He just wasn't "Bob Jones" material...
    I wonder if his going to a Roman Catholic University for his Ph.D. had anything to do with the decision to turn the Presidency over to Steve?

    Bob IV got his doctoral level training at Notre Dame, while Stephen Jones got his from BJU. Did Bob IV get to close to "the Great Whore" for the board at BJU?
    Dr. Thomas Cassidy
    Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church of Spring Valley, California
    Professor, San Diego Baptist Theological Seminary

  23. #23
    kevin.carroll's Avatar
    kevin.carroll is offline. Puritanboard Junior
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    Originally posted by DocCas
    Originally posted by kevin.carroll
    I went to Jr. High with Bobby 4. He was a little...disruptive in his actions and attitudes, which carried into his adult life. He just wasn't "Bob Jones" material...
    I wonder if his going to a Roman Catholic University for his Ph.D. had anything to do with the decision to turn the Presidency over to Steve?

    Bob IV got his doctoral level training at Notre Dame, while Stephen Jones got his from BJU. Did Bob IV get to close to "the Great Whore" for the board at BJU?
    Perhaps, but it's not hard to inflame a Fundamentalist. While I do not consider Jack Van Impe a great scholar, his book "Heart Disease in Christ's Body" is a real eye opener as to how far off track Fundamentalism has become.
    Rev. Kevin Carroll
    Currently Without Call
    DMIN Candidate at New Geneva Seminary
    Presbyterian Church of America
    Colorado

  24. #24
    BaptistReformer is offline. Inactive User
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    Bob Jones IV wasn't "passed over" for the Presidency of the "school" (rather indoctrination camp). He is too acedemic for BJU. He is very good thinker and a reformed mind that works a writer and editor for World Magazine! Read his works sometime! I doubt you could have done anything to convince BJIV to become the Bishop of Greenville and the "Independent Fundamental Pope"
    David Mullins
    Emmanuel Baptist Church, Toledo, OH
    Outreach / Assimilation Pastor

    Visit my Blog - [url=http://mullinsmusings.blogspot.com][b]Mullins Musings[/b][/url] (my blog)

    "Ezra set his heart to study the Law of the Lord, and to do it, and to teach his statutes and rules" (Ezra 7.10) ... O Lord, may this be true of me, your servant!

  25. #25
    kevin.carroll's Avatar
    kevin.carroll is offline. Puritanboard Junior
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    Originally posted by BaptistReformer
    Bob Jones IV wasn't "passed over" for the Presidency of the "school" (rather indoctrination camp). He is too acedemic for BJU. He is very good thinker and a reformed mind that works a writer and editor for World Magazine! Read his works sometime! I doubt you could have done anything to convince BJIV to become the Bishop of Greenville and the "Independent Fundamental Pope"
    I'm glad to hear he got things together. He was in trouble a lot as a young man.
    Rev. Kevin Carroll
    Currently Without Call
    DMIN Candidate at New Geneva Seminary
    Presbyterian Church of America
    Colorado

  26. #26
    strangerpilgrim is offline. Inactive User
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    I was attending BJU at the time when Bob Jones IV was offered the presidency. That was some years ago. I was a senior, and had many friends in administrative capacities, so was aware of the situation. BJIV was offered the presidency (not to begin at that time, but he would need several years to be "primed" for the post). He rejected it, saying that his gifts did not tend in those directions. Immediately, Steven Jones began the process of "priming." He has been taking over more and more responsiblity over the last 10 years or so. One of the first things he did was call a meeting with dormitory supervisors and the deans of men, women and students to describe his plans for changes in the future. Anyone who attended BJU from 5 years ago and back will, if they visit the campus and talk to the students today, find that there have been many changes in some of the more "legalistic" tendancies. (Perhaps only outwardly, of course).
    Strangerpilgrim
    Knoxville, TN
    Mssry in closed country

    "Judge not the Lord by feeble sense..."

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