Well I know many (well-read) baptists who would argue that the Anabaptists are not baptists at all: classical baptists arose from Puritanism not Anabaptism. The latter had a different view of baptism (despite believing it was only for adults), salvation, ethics, church, etc. etc.

As I understand it, the link between the Anabaptists may be there, but can't be historically proved from primary sources.

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Marty

From Creation to New Creation via Redemption

Well, not that I am THAT important of a baptist, but I am never shy of an opinion on threads like this. I think I'm on the "Who's Who" of notable baptists I am at the bottom of the list under the heading of, "We don't know him."

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I know, I know! Just trying to shake you up a little bit.

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Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

This may explain the old adage about Baptists being Methodists with shoes, and Presbyterians being Baptists who can read. To round out the adage, Lutherans might qualify as Presbyterians who drink to excess, and Episcopalians as Lutherans who know when to say when. - D.G. Hart

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia

Yes, Bill. First thing I thought of.

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R.Vic Bottomly
Providence Reformed Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

The Westminister Confession of Faith and Catechisms clearly teaches the separation of powers between church and state. The Reformers, especially Calvin and Knox, did not force a state church upon the people. This is a faulty understanding of reformation history. Calvin strongly believed in a separation of the two but both the church and state had distinct roles. Calvin is the one who introduced the separation of powers, not the Anabaptist movement

You've done remarkably refraining from comment thus far, but I was just curious. Just between you and me, what's you're opinion about all this? Are you a protestant?

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Bob Howes
Framingham, MA

A reoccurring thought:

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Nice try. Nice try.

Came THAT close...

The way I have heard it put concerns those independent churches which broke away from the attempted hegemony of Rome, starting perhaps with the church in Milan, and eventually becoming what were known as the Waldenses (or Vaudois) and Albigenses, whose godly communities in the mountains of Italy and France were relentlessly persecuted by Rome for centuries. There was a claim that they were baptistic, which is not clearly documented to my thinking. And if they were at all, it may well have been in opposition to the flagrant perversion of the Biblical doctrine of infant baptism by Rome. This is how I have heard the "we are not protestants" by my baptist friends -- those who were of that mind, meaning they were descended from the Waldenses, not the Reformers who broke from Rome.

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Steve Rafalsky
Elder, International Evangelical Church (Reformed)
Limassol, Cyprus

"I am set for the defense of the gospel" (Philippians 1:17)

"Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious
power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness..." (Colossians 1:11)

I also had understood Calvin to see the state as the arm of the church. For instance, the state was to execute heretics. Can you point to where Calvin makes it clear that he sees a true separation here?
This, as I have understood it, is inherent in the reformation. The reformers desired to change the church, which was inherently a political entity. The anabaptists, however, didn't concern themselves with changing anyone, but with pursuing their religion separate from and regardless of the politics around them.

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For the Glory of our King,
Joe Johnson
Married up in 1988 and blessed with two wonderful sons
TMS graduate
Preacherboy at Cornerstone Community Church, Escanaba, MI
http://www.SoundLife.org

Sorry, my err. I thought it was the author. Thanks for your kind response in clearing up the matter for me.

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Nikki Edmond
New Beginnings Believers Bible Fellowship (Family's Church), Non-Denom
Los Angeles, CA
www.haveatulip.com - Chat Room for Reformed Believers
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

I think I once read AA Hodge say that Baptists are "the Protestants of Protestants" in Evangelical Theology, but then he turned round and proved them wrong.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Hey, I never said we were right, merely that we were not $%#^@* Anabaptists. Frankly, thanks to PB, I'm seriously reconsidering my views on these issues anyway. I may learn how to baptize with a squirt gun yet. No, really, the PB has been a wonderful place to re-think things held since childhood, but often without a whole lot of exegetical/theological reflection. The more Reformed literature I read, the more sense it makes as a comprehensive package. For now, however, I'm not Reformed, just confessional baptist.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Didn't the Baptists take the Reformation a step further by revolting against the government by not baptizing their babies which was akin to not registering them as citizens.

The original reformers reformed the church but baptists worked to completely seperate the church from the state. This is why they were punished were Luther and Calvin were not.

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Erick Bohndorf PCA, KS
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
Jeremiah 23:16,17, "Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. 17They say continually to those who despise the word of the Lord, ‘It shall be well with you’; and to everyone who stubbornly follows his own heart, they say, ‘No disaster shall come upon you."

I see the Apostles as Reformed Baptists, as I see what is in the 1689 as what is taught in the Bible. I would not be in a Reformed Baptist Church if I did not believe this was the teaching of the Bible.
Padeo's look at the bible as if the Apostles taught what is summed up in the 1644, otherwise they should not be where they are doctrinally.
It is fruitless to look back to some of the various groups, Anabaptists, Montanists, Donatists, etc, and seek to link to them to prove your scheme is more truthful.
All those groups of people struggled to come to truth, or resist error in their day. They did not have all the advantages that we have. Heretics always come alongside the true work of God.
I am thankful to God for the Godly line of believer's he has preserved as he has promised he would. The Reformation was a time of restoration of much of the Apostolic teaching as being foundational. Not anyone of the men had all truth. To look back to church history and single out which men you link to sounds like the carnality Paul described in 1 Cor 3= I am of Paul, I am of Apollos
From Church history we can learn of which error's to avoid. To try and put our 2008 minds back to the dark ages by reading a few historical writings and think that we have a full grasp of what it was like to live at that time seems a bit futile. If believer's then held other views, but did not write as much as The Puritans , who would even know about them?
If people saw believer's baptism,but did not have as much light as some of the other men on other area's of theology so be it. Providentially God saw fit to have it happen that way.

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Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

No matter how often I hear this theory, I am always amazed at the credulity of some people.

Of course baptists are Protestant. They are not Orthodox. Neither are they Roman Catholic. They are not a cult.

Therefore, they are Protestant, QED.

My father in law, an ordained minister, and a member of the SBC is visiting for three days. I bet my wife even money that his visit will not end without him saying that "baptists are not protestants" at least once.

Of course she declined. He may be a anti-historical-trail-of-blood-landmarkian-fanatic, but he didn't raise no fool!

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

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Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

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soli Deo gloria!
~N!ck Nap!er~
Ordained Pastor, Associate, Cornerstone Church, NC
Christians are like snow covered dung; it is the purity of the covering which the Father sees.
-Luther-
There is nothing more ugly than a Christian orthodoxy without understanding or without compassion. -Francis Schaeffer-

Ya, and Jesus is Paedobaptist. Remember some people brought their child to Jesus, the "Reformed Baptist" apostles wanted to kick them away, but Jesus embraced them?

Back to the OP, hey Davidius, your thread title is even more controversial than Piper's book title!

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Polo
Layman, Chinese Evangelical Church/Independent
San Diego

For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. (Romans 11:36)