Marcus Borg -revisionist Bible

Richard King · #1 (**permalink**) 10-29-2007, 10:53 AM

This guy Marcus Borg has written several books,
one of which is READING THE BIBLE AGAIN FOR THE FIRST TIME. He is a Jesus Seminar guy.

I have a friend that thinks this is the definitive book that will correct all the misinformation that is contained in the Bible. My buddy is not only buying every book this guy has written but interjecting the thoughts and premises of Borg in classes he teaches. He is telling everyone that will listen about how he has found some awesome truth.

It is incredibly frustrating for me to quote something from the Bible and have this friend tell me that I am quoting something that wasn't even written until centuries after the death of Christ so it isn't first person proof of what actually happened.
I wasted a weekend on this. I read some of the book. I was wondering, has anyone else dealt with this?
I am about ready to shake the dust of my sandals and move on but I hate how my friend is confusing the minds of others. I want to counter it but how do you counter with scripture a person who is teaching that scripture may or may not be from God?

Dr Mike Kear · #2 (**permalink**) 10-29-2007, 11:09 AM

I've read two books by Marcus Borg

The question that always comes to my mind is why he considers himself a Christian at all. He seriously does not believe any part of the Gospel accounts. He speaks of metaphor and myth, of the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith (both of which, according to Borg, are fictions). The only thing I can figure out is that Borg derives his paycheck out of the premise that he is writing and teaching as a "Christian." And since he has absolutely no belief in the supernatural, he can't even be a good New Ager, so he continues his charade of being a Christian. IMHO, anyone who buys into Borg's teachings is either incredibly gullible, or... well, lost.

DMcFadden · #3 (**permalink**) 10-29-2007, 03:13 PM

I vote for "lost." Is ANYone THAT gullible?

caddy · #4 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 01:57 PM

Pyromaniacs: Resurrection not essential? (More of Those Wacky Academics!)

Richard King · #5 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 08:19 PM

YES! Though these posters are meant to be a joke they perfectly summarize the conclusions my buddy has come to since reading Borg.
Motivational Posters for the Emerging Free-for All

Sadly he teaches in his Methodist church and in public schools and subtly interjects these thoughts and writings of Borg
into his students heads as some sort of secret REAL info that a conspiracy of Christians doesn't want you to know.
He will say " be intellectually free enough to consider this" or "consider with me if you will that there is a greater truth than you ever dared believe."

He told me his greatest dream would be to move to Oregon and study under this guy Borg.

I am basically dealing with a person who believes NONE of what the Bible says but feels he is a Christian because he "gets" the essence of what the Bible wants to say. He uses the word sacred a lot in place of God, Holy Spirit or Jesus. He says Borg convinced him that Jesus is not the Messiah but a messiah, one of many learned ones.

I think after thinking about this for a day or two I am dealing with a friend with the largest ego I have ever seen and he is simply unwilling to humble himself before God and has found an academic to validate his rebellion.

My problem is I love this guy like a brother AND as an intellectual or shall we say in IQ points he is so far above me at my very best that it is laughable. It is undeniable that he is smarter. He knows it. I know it. He is trying to "educate or enlighten me" and intellectually I am like the guy who took a knife to a gunfight. This guy just reads voraciously. I suspect he reads a dozen books to every one I read. But it has cluttered his mind.

It makes me sick.
That is why I wondered if anyone knows of a great mind that has done a rebutal sermon or book.

DMcFadden · #6 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 09:06 PM

Intellectual hubris is as good a barrier to God as sexual sin, greed, anger, hatred, murder, etc.

clstamper · #7 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 12:22 AM

Motivational Posters for the Emerging Free-for All

I love this. I absolutely love this. Attaboy, Phil.

clstamper · #8 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Mike Kear

I've read two books by Marcus Borg

I can understand buying one Borg book. But why would you go back for another? :-)

caddy · #9 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard King

YES! Though these posters are meant to be a joke they perfectly summarize the conclusions my buddy has come to since reading Borg.
Motivational Posters for the Emerging Free-for All

Sadly he teaches in his Methodist church and in public schools and subtly interjects these thoughts and writings of Borg
into his students heads as some sort of secret REAL info that a conspiracy of Christians doesn't want you to know.
He will say " be intellectually free enough to consider this" or "consider with me if you will that there is a greater truth than you ever dared believe."

He told me his greatest dream would be to move to Oregon and study under this guy Borg.

I am basically dealing with a person who believes NONE of what the Bible says but feels he is a Christian because he "gets" the essence of what the Bible wants to say. He uses the word sacred a lot in place of God, Holy Spirit or Jesus. He says Borg convinced him that Jesus is not the Messiah but a messiah, one of many learned ones.

I think after thinking about this for a day or two I am dealing with a friend with the largest ego I have ever seen and he is simply unwilling to humble himself before God and has found an academic to validate his rebellion.

My problem is I love this guy like a brother AND as an intellectual or shall we say in IQ points he is so far above me at my very best that it is laughable. It is undeniable that he is smarter. He knows it. I know it. He is trying to "educate or enlighten me" and intellectually I am like the guy who took a knife to a gunfight. This guy just reads voraciously. I suspect he reads a dozen books to every one I read. But it has cluttered his mind.

It makes me sick.
That is why I wondered if anyone knows of a great mind that has done a rebutal sermon or book.

It always amazes me that in the nearly 2 millennia the Church has been on this earth, people think some ONE individual has finally cornered the market on truth, finally figured out that God meant something different all along, and that in 2007 we Finally have enough "knowledge" to know ourselves and [g]od the way He wants to be known. It's really mind-boggling. To assume intellect--or head knowledge has finally given us what we need to reach God is so against the plain reading of scripture it is hard to grasp. Sad indeed. I think your best weapon here is simply prayer. Pray that God would humble your friend. This is what needs to happen. We all know that. He won't be beat at his own game--and he is playing a game of oneupsmanship on you and to those unsuspecting sheep with which he is teaching error and heresy.

Dr Mike Kear · #10 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

I can understand buying one Borg book. But why would you go back for another? :-)

Who says I bought 'em?

These days it's far easier to find liberal tripe like Borg (or comic book eschatology like LaHaye) in the library than to find solid, Christ-honoring theological books.

I've read Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time and The Heart of Christianity by Borg. The Heart of Christianity is a good look into the basic ideas of Borg. If you want to understand a person who is enamored by Borg, this book will give you a peek into his "emerging paradigm" which is set against the traditional "belief-centered" paradigm of biblical Christianity. He actually expresses himself quite well. He doesn't come across as your typical old school liberal, dry and anti-supernatural. He comes across more like an open-minded pantheist who sees wonder in all of creation. God is this big radiant cloud that encloses all things and in the process of our seeing this, all things come to be seen as God. Yet there is nothing supernatural about this god. Borg's god is a natural god. The joy and "salvation" in this vision comes in the ability to see this vision of god. Big egos love this because they can see this, where tradition religious people cannot.

caddy · #11 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Mike Kear

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

I can understand buying one Borg book. But why would you go back for another? :-)

Who says I bought 'em?

These days it's far easier to find liberal tripe like Borg (or comic book eschatology like LaHaye) in the library than to find solid, Christ-honoring theological books.

I've read Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time and The Heart of Christianity by Borg. The Heart of Christianity is a good look into the basic ideas of Borg. If you want to understand a person who is enamored by Borg, this book will give you a peek into his "emerging paradigm" which is set against the traditional "belief-centered" paradigm of biblical Christianity. He actually expresses himself quite well. He doesn't come across as your typical old school liberal, dry and anti-supernatural. He comes across more like an open-minded pantheist who sees wonder in all of creation. God is this big radiant cloud that encloses all things and in the process of our seeing this, all things come to be seen as God. Yet there is nothing supernatural about this god. Borg's god is a natural god. The joy and "salvation" in this vision comes in the ability to see this vision of god. Big egos love this because they can see this, where tradition religious people cannot.

Sounds like an Intellecutal Opra...

Quickened · #12 (**permalink**) 11-11-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

Motivational Posters for the Emerging Free-for All

I love this. I absolutely love this. Attaboy, Phil.

Ha! Those are great!

Cuirassier · #13 (**permalink**) 11-11-2007, 02:43 PM

Well, I'm not a Star Trek fan, but, did the name "Borg" not raise ANY flags??

Just kidding. I'm sure there's lots of Godly Borgs somewhere in Scandinavia. On topic now ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Intellectual hubris is as good a barrier to God as sexual sin, greed, anger, hatred, murder, etc.

Amen,

And for those of us who've studied in secular colleges and universities, the truth of your statement is undeniable.

Psalm 14:1
The fool has said in his heart,“There is no God.” They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good.

Psalm 53:1
The fool has said in his heart,“There is no God.” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good.

Romans 1:21
because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Incidentally, it's been a while since I've visited here - family and work commitments have drastically cut my online time. Notwithstanding, I'm rejoicing in God's daily mercies and provisions - Great is His faithfulness.

In Him,

dl