[b:c53015e875]In another thread, Joe (Wannabee) wrote:[/b:c53015e875]
Guys, I can't believe how much I've learned in less than a year through my studies of Greek and Hebrew. And I hardly know a thing. I studied Greek on my own for just a few months last year, and now I only have a few months of Hebrew under my belt. The Scriptures just got a whole lot deeper for me. It's truly awesome. Some of what comes alive in the original is amazingly absent in the English.

Many of you are either just starting to learn or have many years under your belt in Greek and Hebrew (Latin for some as well). For those of us who have no training in those languages, I thought I'd ask those with the training:

Could you give an example or two of something you've learned about a scripture by studying Greek or Hebrew that you might not otherwise have seen if you just read the English without the extra knowledge? Something you thought was really cool that made you either want to go run and tell somebody or brought you down to your knees in deeper worship or praise. Let's assume that the word "baptizo" has already been taken ( )

Bob

[Edited on 2-24-2004 by blhowes]

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B.Howes
Framingham, MA

For me, it is just neat to see it all come together and know that the translations we have are either faithful, or took a bit of liberty.

I am in an inductive study of Hebrew which means that it does not start out with learning paradigms and vocabulary, parsing and such. But, it starts out like we all learned English. We put words together, learned the alphabet, learned to spell and so on. I think it is a good approach, although, it can overwhelm you since we learned English over the period of 10 years, and I only have 3 or 4 semesters to learn Hebrew.

The inductive study is not good for those who want to know the rules of language because you only get the rules in bits and pieces.

But the greatest thing about inductive is that we are starting in Genesis Chapter 22, with the actual text and reading it letter for letter, learning as we go, the meaning of the words.

If you have a MKJV (if you don't, go to biblegateway.com), look up Genesis 22 and just start reading. From what I have seen so far, it is a word for word translation and is closest. The only problem with it is that it is clumsy in English, which is why the NKJV is a bit easier to read because they have made it a bit more graceful.

All in all, it is very satisfying. It is difficult because we already know English backward and forward. We seem to think that learning Hebrew or Greek should be that simple and it isn't. It takes patience and hard work. And that, I believe, is why it is satisfying.

As a note on Latin, I teach my boys Latina Christiana and they are in their second year. As an exercise the other evening, I printed out John 1:1-3 from the Vulgate and we translated it. That was fun. Their eyes lit up as we went through the words that became familiar after we put it all together, because they have heard John 1:1-3 in English a few times. It is almost like putting a puzzle together. Good stuff.

In Christ,

KC

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Kevin C. Easterday
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kc,
Thanks for your response.

It must be neat to be able to translate a Hebrew passage and then to confirm what you translated against the english translation. What a feeling of accomplishment that must be.

[b:8f2a580cb0]kc wrote:[/b:8f2a580cb0]
it can overwhelm you since we learned English over the period of 10 years, and I only have 3 or 4 semesters to learn Hebrew

Its amazing the grace God gives people to accomplish what they do in a 24-hour period. Apart from God's help, I can't imagine how you and others do it. Learn Hebrew, teach your kids Latin, serve in a church...

[b:8f2a580cb0]kc wrote:[/b:8f2a580cb0]
As an exercise the other evening, I printed out John 1:1-3 from the Vulgate and we translated it. That was fun. Their eyes lit up as we went through the words that became familiar after we put it all together, because they have heard John 1:1-3 in English a few times. It is almost like putting a puzzle together. Good stuff.

Amen. I can imagine how fun and satisfying that must have been for your kids when they started to recognize the various pieces of the puzzle and realized what the verse was.

Bob

Bob, here's some quick tidbits. It's obviously not exhaustive, but will give you a little bit of an idea of what I'm talking about.


As most conservatives agree, the second half of this psalm complements the first. The first relates to general revelation via creation. The second relates to special revelation via God's Word. "A" gives you the knowledge that we can all know about God through His creation. "B" reveals that we cannot know who God is outside of His Word. That's pretty simplistic I know.

Psalm 19

(1) To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
(2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
(3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
(4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
(5) Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
(6) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
(7) The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
(8) The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(9) The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
(10) More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
(11) Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
(12) Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
(13) Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
(14) Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


Let's get to the psalm. First, notice that in the first verse we see God refered to as "God." This is "El" and refers to the Creator. Most fitting in this first part of the psalm where creation declares God.

In verse 9 we have YHWH, the covenant name for God in the section dealing with His Word. This is significant I think.

Of course we could know this if we understood it from good English translations because LORD is capitalized in these verses, signifying the use of YHWH. However, God is translated from various names, so the Creator God would most likely be missed in English.

Now, as we look at the structure of the first part we see what appears to be two somewhat parallel statements. The heavens declare the glory and the expanse or firmament proclaims the work of His hands (more literal). It is interesting that in the Hebrew the order of words is opposite in the second statement from the first.

Heavens declare glory of God
God's handiwork proclaimed by firmament

This is a method (sorry can't remember term) of Hebrew poetry that is missed in English. The following verses don't keep this arrangement, sort of setting apart this first verse.

In verse three the words "Where" or "There is" are not in the original. The reason is because the point is that they don't have a voice. There very existence declares the glory of God without the need of speech. In fact, speech cannot do them justice. Observe the heavens, to attempt to describe the grandeur with which they declare God's glory would only diminish the magnificence found in the heavens.

See what I'm saying?

Okay, look at verse 4. "Line" here does not due it justice. This word can be translated two ways, either as a measuring line (Master Builder) or as a line of a verse (Is. 28:10,13). Both can work here in the context. In fact, many scholars believe that this is intentional, giving a wonderful play on words on the part of God (through David). See the measuring line of creation proclaiming the glory of God throughout all the earth, and the words of the verse to the end of the world. There's a lot there, but honestly I've only scratched the surface and I'm already in over my head. Lots of work to do here.

Bridegroom and Strongman (Warrior). This is awesome imagery. Man in his glory as he proclaims his marriage and the victorious warrior.

Sorry, that's all I can do for now, we just had company show up. Hopefully that will whet your appetite enough for you to see what I'm saying. Most of this I can't take credit for, I read it in our professor's thesis on Psalm 19 and apologetics.

Have fun,
Joe

[Edited on 2-28-2004 by Wannabee]

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For the Glory of our King,
Joe Johnson
Slave of Christ, husband, father, Preacherboy at Cornerstone Community Church, Escanaba, MI. and TMS graduate. Personal website - SoundLife.org

I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS

Joe,
Thanks for your post. That was really interesting.

Your response triggered my curiousity. For example, I thought it would be interesting to search for all the Hebrew words that are translated "God" in the OT. I'd like to try and learn what each word teaches about God's attributes, why one particular word was used in a verse instead of other possible words for God, and how an understanding of each word can add to my understanding of the scripture. I'm sure doing a word study like this without any knowledge of the original language would be lacking compared to what could be gleaned with that knowledge, but I'm sure there are blessing to be had nevertheless.

Thanks again,
Bob