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some things hard to understand, which the ignorant twist to their destruction (2 Pe. 3:16)

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.

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Old 06-22-2009, 06:06 PM
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10 most common Scripture twistings

I wanted to start a list of what people thought were the 10 most common exegetical mistakes. That is, the 10 most often mis-interpreted scripture quotes/usages. I will start the list with several I am thinking of...

1) Matthew 18:20

For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.

2) Philippians 4:13

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

3) Matthew 7:1

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

4) Revelation 3:15-17

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

5) Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

6) 2 Opinions 2:1-2

You have a god-shaped whole in your heart. So just ask Jesus into your heart.

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Old 06-22-2009, 06:15 PM
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7. Jeremiah 29:11

'For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.' (NASB)

8. Malachi 3:10

"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. (NASB)

9. Romans 8:28

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (NASB)
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The cross does not give us a minor shift or two with regard to a few of our ethical and moral and religious values; the cross radically disrupts the very center and citadel of your life from self to Christ. —Albert N. Martin
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:25 PM
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10. John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Theognome
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:32 PM
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"A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother."
Proverbs 18:24

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Proverbs 22:6
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:38 PM
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This thread isn't very useful unless the participants explain the poor interpretations of the verses and provide better alternatives.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
This thread isn't very useful unless the participants explain the poor interpretations of the verses and provide better alternatives.
The one I posted is one of the main texts by which the JW's deny the deity of Christ and the Trinity.

Theognome
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybird0827 View Post
"A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother."
Proverbs 18:24
In many circles it is pushed (as in dogmatically) that "the friend that sticketh closer than a brother" is Jesus.

Quote:
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Proverbs 22:6
People insist it means that if you train up a child rightly he will continue to do what is right. If you bring him up under sound teaching and a sound church ministry, he will be converted and faithful for the rest of his life.

Doesn't wash. Apparently in the original it means that if you train up a child in his own way that he will continue in that.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybird0827 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybird0827 View Post
"A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother."
Proverbs 18:24
In many circles it is pushed (as in dogmatically) that "the friend that sticketh closer than a brother" is Jesus.
That's the case in my church (not reformed).

My music minister quoted it with the singing of this song the other day:

Quote:
I am a friend of God
I am a friend of God
I am a friend of God
He calls me friend
Which I do not think is an appropriate song to sing during worship.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

1 John 2:2
Some people think that the "whole world" means every single person who has ever lived on earth or will live on earth.

Quote:
"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

1 Peter 3:21
Some people think that this verse is teaching baptismal regeneration.
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Last edited by cih1355; 06-22-2009 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Correction
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:41 PM
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Another verse sometimes used by Armenians or even universalists:

"...God our savior, who does will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth." -I Timothy 2:3-4 (MYLT)
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:45 PM
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In John Gill's commentary on Proverbs 18:24, he says:
and there is a friend [that] sticketh closer than a brother;
who is to a man as his own soul, (Deuteronomy 13:6) ; and so are of one heart and soul, as Jonathan and David, and the first Christians, were; this is true of Christ, and may be expressive of the close union between him and his people; and of his close adherence to their cause and interest; and of his constancy and continuance as a friend at all times; and of his faithfulness and unchangeableness as such; see (Proverbs 17:17) . The Heathens had a deity which presided over friendship, which they called Jupiter Philios F3: the character best agrees with the true God, who is a friend to men himself, and loves friendship among them.
Just food for thought. I thought it referred to the friendship of Christ -- not in a "Jesus is my homeboy" type of way, but still friendship.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:03 PM
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Isaiah 53: 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

This one was used on me today. My cluster headaches are a matter of
1. Not enough faith on my part
2. Not enough faith on the one praying
3. God lying in scripture

Naturally 2 & 3 can't be correct so it is my fault. The young man was not able to prove conclusively it was my faith so then it is "some sin" which I refuse to be released from. Once I do this I will be free from my condition. If only Paul and all those millions of believers who suffer from an ailment would just learn this secret....
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:34 PM
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:39 PM
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One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:42 PM
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The thread title should have its value changed from 10 to 1000.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:48 PM
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1 John 4:8 - "...............God is love" (truncated)

God is cool, and would never send anyone to hell.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
Even though I am a paedobaptist I agree with you that this verse is taken terribly out of context. One reason I hate to see people use it is because it makes us look desperate for scriptural evidence.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
It's usually used to say that they are considered part of the covenant community, the minor premise of a paedobaptist syllogism (Major: All covenant members are baptized; Minor: children of believers are covenant members; etc.).

I realize you would still disagree with that, but it's far from a twisting to use that for paedobaptism.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confessor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
It's usually used to say that they are considered part of the covenant community, the minor premise of a paedobaptist syllogism (Major: All covenant members are baptized; Minor: children of believers are covenant members; etc.).

I realize you would still disagree with that, but it's far from a twisting to use that for paedobaptism.
It's still twisting it. Come on, admit it...just a little bit.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:58 PM
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I've seen Romans 4:17 be abused on numerous occasions. Some use it for the purpose of teaching that man can speak things into existence. (Name it, claim it). Kinda like the "law of attraction" for Churchians.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confessor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
It's usually used to say that they are considered part of the covenant community, the minor premise of a paedobaptist syllogism (Major: All covenant members are baptized; Minor: children of believers are covenant members; etc.).

I realize you would still disagree with that, but it's far from a twisting to use that for paedobaptism.
It's still twisting it. Come on, admit it...just a little bit.
I don't know if your "come on, admit it...just a little bit" was intended to make me laugh or not, but it did.

-----Added 6/22/2009 at 10:59:56 EST-----

Oh, and how can I forget? "You are not under law, but under grace," Rom. 6:14.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
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The life promised is not abundant riches, health or the like. The life promised here is the life of the shepherd who lays down His life for His sheep (vs. 11) so that they may have eternal life (vs. 28).
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:08 PM
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I've heard Luke 11:46 used to berate lawyers:

Quote:
And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Talk about out of context. I've known lawyers to touch a burden with a finger,. . . maybe once. . . while wearing heavy gloves. . . .

Uh, let me look for another one.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorbravo View Post
I've heard Luke 11:46 used to berate lawyers:

Quote:
And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Talk about out of context. I've known lawyers to touch a burden with a finger,. . . maybe once. . . while wearing heavy gloves. . . .

Uh, let me look for another one.
How very, very sad that you know someone who would believe that. Of course, I know some folks who believe even stranger things.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:23 PM
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Maybe I just passed it by accident, but wow! no one said John 3:16?!
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:26 PM
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
As much as I respect the Confessor (brilliant young man isn't he?) Jesus said, "Let the children come unto me" because his disciples were rebuking those bringing the children to him and sending the children away.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:28 PM
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John 18:36:

"My kingdom is not of this world."

Herman Bavinck counters the oft-encountered dualistic twist of Jesus' words:

Christ has indeed stated that his kingdom is not of this world, but he is not a spiritual king in the sense that he has absolutely no interest in external and earthly things. On the contrary, he assumed a fully human nature and came into the world not to condemn the world but to save it. Christ planted his kingdom in that world and made sure that it could exist in it, and, like leaven, have a transforming impact in all areas of life.”
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:30 PM
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Mt 3:16 as a proof that Jesus was dunked.

16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
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Classical Presbyterian (06-24-2009)
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2009, 11:48 PM
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One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
As much as I respect the Confessor (brilliant young man isn't he?) Jesus said, "Let the children come unto me" because his disciples were rebuking those bringing the children to him and sending the children away.
I would say this still provides evidence for children's being in the covenant community, but we can just leave it at this. Thank you for the compliment.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2009, 11:59 PM
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One of the most abused verses is "let the children come unto me" and somehow supporting infant baptism from that.
As much as I respect the Confessor (brilliant young man isn't he?) Jesus said, "Let the children come unto me" because his disciples were rebuking those bringing the children to him and sending the children away.
I would say this still provides evidence for children's being in the covenant community, but we can just leave it at this. Thank you for the compliment.
Maybe I've been too hasty. I think I know how you're applying it now. I'd like to see another thread on that subject.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:05 AM
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Maybe I've been too hasty. I think I know how you're applying it now. I'd like to see another thread on that subject.
Honestly, I don't know enough about it to make a watertight paedobaptist argument for it. But I just figured it wasn't an example of Scripture-twisting. It may be mistaken, but not an overblown mistake.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:08 AM
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Maybe I've been too hasty. I think I know how you're applying it now. I'd like to see another thread on that subject.
Honestly, I don't know enough about it to make a watertight paedobaptist argument for it. But I just figured it wasn't an example of Scripture-twisting. It may be mistaken, but not an overblown mistake.
Well, I've heard it used before and it didn't appeal to me. But that could just be because it wasn't presented very well or because I was missing something (which in my case is very possible if not likely ).

Now you've got me wanting to dig into it. Thanks! I needed a subject to jump on!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2009, 12:25 AM
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I wanted to start a list of what people thought were the 10 most common exegetical mistakes. That is, the 10 most often mis-interpreted scripture quotes/usages. I will start the list with several I am thinking of...

1) Matthew 18:20

For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.

2) Philippians 4:13

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

3) Matthew 7:1

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

4) Revelation 3:15-17

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

5) Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

6) 2 Opinions 2:1-2

You have a god-shaped whole in your heart. So just ask Jesus into your heart.

So here are my abbreviated answers to how these are incorrectly used...

1) should be in context with church discipline,
2) should be in context with evangelism and speaking the Gospel to people while in the midst of being persecuted (not with boxing ),
3) is talking about the state of a man's eternal soul,
4) hot is good and cold is good...people keep saying that hot is good and cold is bad. It has to do with the good use of the hot and cold waters from the surrounding cities and after it is piped in to Laodecia it is lukewarm and nasty. Jesus would rather we be for him (hot or cold) and not on the fence (lukewarm),
5) should be in context with a repentant church (i.e. believers) and not used for calling the unregenerate.
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Scottish Lass (06-26-2009)
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2009, 12:29 AM
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4) hot is good and cold is good...people keep saying that hot is good and cold is bad. It has to do with the good use of the hot and cold waters from the surrounding cities and after it is piped in to Laodecia it is lukewarm and nasty. Jesus would rather we be for him (hot or cold) and not on the fence (lukewarm),
I thought "cold" referred to full-fledged unbelief, and that Christ hated lukewarmness because it reproaches His name. People don't think bad of Christ when they see atheism, but they do when they see garbage done in the name of Christ.

Actually, yeah, your explanation makes more sense. I remember a sermon where the preacher described the cold and hot water of other towns as good and Laodicea's water as lukewarm, tepid, and stale. But on the other hand, how can we say lukewarm is "on the fence" if hot and cold represent the same thing?
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:34 AM
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4) hot is good and cold is good...people keep saying that hot is good and cold is bad. It has to do with the good use of the hot and cold waters from the surrounding cities and after it is piped in to Laodecia it is lukewarm and nasty. Jesus would rather we be for him (hot or cold) and not on the fence (lukewarm),
I thought "cold" referred to full-fledged unbelief, and that Christ hated lukewarmness because it reproaches His name. People don't think bad of Christ when they see atheism, but they do when they see garbage done in the name of Christ.

Actually, yeah, your explanation makes more sense. I remember a sermon where the preacher described the cold and hot water of other towns as good and Laodicea's water as lukewarm, tepid, and stale. But on the other hand, how can we say lukewarm is "on the fence" if hot and cold represent the same thing?
Because Jesus says in verse 15:

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

I believe it is clear that Jesus is saying be for Him. Why would Jesus rather someone be totally against Him? That's what clinches it for me, as well as the historical context of the two cities which were known for their good and useful water which was hot in one city and nice and cold in the other city.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2009, 12:37 AM
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4) hot is good and cold is good...people keep saying that hot is good and cold is bad. It has to do with the good use of the hot and cold waters from the surrounding cities and after it is piped in to Laodecia it is lukewarm and nasty. Jesus would rather we be for him (hot or cold) and not on the fence (lukewarm),
I thought "cold" referred to full-fledged unbelief, and that Christ hated lukewarmness because it reproaches His name. People don't think bad of Christ when they see atheism, but they do when they see garbage done in the name of Christ.

Actually, yeah, your explanation makes more sense. I remember a sermon where the preacher described the cold and hot water of other towns as good and Laodicea's water as lukewarm, tepid, and stale. But on the other hand, how can we say lukewarm is "on the fence" if hot and cold represent the same thing?
Because Jesus says in verse 15:

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

I believe it is clear that Jesus is saying be for Him. Why would Jesus rather someone be totally against Him? That's what clinches it for me, as well as the historical context of the two cities which were known for their good and useful water which was hot in one city and nice and cold in the other city.
Well, it would still make sense if He were saying that He'd prefer they be outright unbelievers than false Christians. In that case, their eternal state would be the same, except the Church would not be internally damaged.
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christianyouth (06-24-2009)
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2009, 12:54 AM
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Well, it would still make sense if He were saying that He'd prefer they be outright unbelievers than false Christians. In that case, their eternal state would be the same, except the Church would not be internally damaged.
Except for the historical account that both the hot and cold waters were good!

"The lukewarmness for which, thanks to this letter, the name of Laodicea has become proverbial, may reflect the condition of the city's water supply. The water supplied by the spring ... was tepid and nauseous by the time it was piped to Laodicea, unlike the therapeutic hot water of Hierapolis or the refreshing cold water of Colossae (Rudwick and Green 1958); hence the Lord's words, 'Would that you were cold or hot!'" (The Anchor Bible Dictionary).

Here's the article I got this quote from: Laodicea, Turkey | Lycus River Valley | Colosse, Hierapolis
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:55 AM
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okay, to be fair to the presbies:


Philip and the eunuch: they both go down into the water to be baptised and all the baptists say AHA, and then the text says that they both came out of the water doesn't it? Was philip dunked too?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2009, 01:10 AM
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Well, it would still make sense if He were saying that He'd prefer they be outright unbelievers than false Christians. In that case, their eternal state would be the same, except the Church would not be internally damaged.
Except for the historical account that both the hot and cold waters were good!

"The lukewarmness for which, thanks to this letter, the name of Laodicea has become proverbial, may reflect the condition of the city's water supply. The water supplied by the spring ... was tepid and nauseous by the time it was piped to Laodicea, unlike the therapeutic hot water of Hierapolis or the refreshing cold water of Colossae (Rudwick and Green 1958); hence the Lord's words, 'Would that you were cold or hot!'" (The Anchor Bible Dictionary).

Here's the article I got this quote from: Laodicea, Turkey | Lycus River Valley | Colosse, Hierapolis
While I know he's not infallible, I just quickly checked John Gill's commentary and he also stated that coldness refers to non-religion.
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