Why pray?

~~Susita~~ · #1 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 06:21 AM

So here's a question I am asked frequently by those who hate Calvinism without really knowing what it is. "If God already knows the future, why pray to Him and ask Him to do things when He already knows the results?" How would YOU answer that?

Puritanhead · #2 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 06:47 AM

Prayer inculcates humility and a profession of dependence by the believer for starters. It's requisite for our spiritual maturation. Plus, we're commanded to pray. Our desire should be to please God. We notice a maturation process in our prayer life as well as we progress in sanctification, and it becomes less about ME-ME-ME and more about HIM-HIM-HIM.

panta dokimazete · #3 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 06:50 AM

Wayne grudem has a great series on this here

Search the page for prayer.

BobVigneault · #4 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 07:28 AM

The WCF is both helpful and concise on prayer and providence.

3.1 God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

Prayer is one of the means (second causes) by which God brings about whatsoever comes to pass.

5.1 Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; yet, by the same providence, he ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.

Ditto.

14.1 The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word, by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments, and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.

The grace of saving faith is increased by prayer.

21.1 Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one special part of religious worship, is by God required of all men: and, that it may be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son, by the help of his Spirit, according to his will, with understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love, and perseverance; and, if vocal, in a known tongue.

Prayer is a required form of acknowledgement and worship as Ryan has already put forth.

Puritan Sailor · #5 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 09:03 AM

I would ask in return, why would I pray to God is he was not sovereign over all things? If he is not in control, then he can't answer prayer. It is Arminians who must justify why they pray not Calvinists.

BobVigneault · #6 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I would ask in return, why would I pray to God is he was not sovereign over all things? If he is not in control, then he can't answer prayer. It is Arminians who must justify why they pray not Calvinists.

Exactly

Don Kistler · #7 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 09:14 AM

Because God says to pray, and in doing so we show our obedience and submission to His lordship.

We are not pragmatists who do something because it works, we are to be Christians who do something because our Lord commands it.

Don Kistler

Joshua · #8 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 09:46 AM

To borrow a line from Caedmon's Call:

"You can't plan the ends, but not plan the means."

God needs not our help. Just as it is with evangelism. We do it because we love Him. Those who love Him obey His commands. We do it because we understand, according to Scripture, God has means by which He accomplishes His ends.

We also pray because we're confident that what we ask, so long as it is according to His good, pleasing, and perfect will, will be accomplished...since it will be ordained by the Almighty Sovereign God of Scripture Who is not bound by anything other than His own promises. Those promises have our good and His glory in mind.

Prayer, IMHO, is also another way of molding the believer.

Everydody else already said it better, but I thought I'd just ramble my

Scott · #9 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 10:30 AM

Bob is right. God foreordains not only the ends but the means (as Josh said well). For example, foreordained that Mr. Jones would be saved. He also foreordained how that would happen, such as Mr. Jones' salvation resulting in part through His response to the prayers of Susita. Every detail is planned out, including the causes of events.

Scott · #10 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I would ask in return, why would I pray to God is he was not sovereign over all things? If he is not in control, then he can't answer prayer. It is Arminians who must justify why they pray not Calvinists.

I know whatyou are saying, but I think they would look at it like asking Superman for help. Superman may not be omnipotent, but he is a lot more powerful than the ordinary person. So there is value in asking him for help.

Cheshire Cat · #11 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 03:35 PM

That sounds like a question for anybody who is not an open theist (i.e. not only Calvinists).

JM · #12 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 04:38 PM

Why should we vote if the powers that be are ordained by God?
Romans 13:1, Proverbs 8:15, Daniel 4:35

Why should we pray if God knows the past and the future in the same moment? Matthew 6:8, Isaiah 65:24

Why should we plant when the harvest will never cease? Genesis 8:22

Why do we need to take care of ourselves when we have a set time when we will expire? Hebrews 9:27

Cause God said so.

http://www.corkfpc.com/whybother.html

etexas · #13 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I would ask in return, why would I pray to God is he was not sovereign over all things? If he is not in control, then he can't answer prayer. It is Arminians who must justify why they pray not Calvinists.

That is really nice Patrick!

Gloria · #14 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

To borrow a line from Caedmon's Call:

"You can't plan the ends, but not plan the means."

God needs not our help. Just as it is with evangelism. We do it because we love Him. Those who love Him obey His commands. We do it because we understand, according to Scripture, God has means by which He accomplishes His ends.

We also pray because we're confident that what we ask, so long as it is according to His good, pleasing, and perfect will, will be accomplished...since it will be ordained by the Almighty Sovereign God of Scripture Who is not bound by anything other than His own promises. Those promises have our good and His glory in mind.

Prayer, IMHO, is also another way of molding the believer.

Everydody else already said it better, but I thought I'd just ramble my

Devin · #15 (**permalink**) 07-12-2007, 11:31 PM

For another reductio ad absurdum argument*:

If we can pray to God and convince Him to change His plans for the better, are we not offering Him a more holy way to govern the universe? Are we not showing Him a path that He, in ignorance, overlooked? Is not the creature more wise than the Creator?

*as such, this shouldn't be used as your first line of defense. This should be held back for a time when the person is particularly arrogant and rude in his/her argumentation. Hopefully, you'll "nicely" bring them down a few notches with such questions.