Here is an article about the pastor of a large church who now denies Hell.

ABC News: 'Heretic' Minister: Nobody Goes to Hell

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Joe K.
Providence Reformed Baptist (member), Toledo Ohio
2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689

And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. Ezk 16:6

Not too unusual these days. Even John R. W. Stott is an Annihilationist (as was my Sys Theo III prof in seminary 100 yrs ago - Colin Brown).

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

!!!!!! I did not know Stott held to that Heresy (and yes I think it a heresey) that saddens me, I liked a lot of Stott's older stuff, is this a newer position for Stott?

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~etexas~

I am awarding Minister Pearson the First Annual PB Baghdad Bob Award for denial in the face of the obvious.



Here's to you Minister Pearson.

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Bob Vigneault (Bawb Vēēn-yo)
I just know there's got to be a pony in here somewhere!

The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog) MySpace (Music), MySpace (Personal)
Member of Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Heresy?


Is this REALLY heresy to be an annihilationism? I thought heresy was something that damned the soul.

There is a HUGE difference between gross error and heresy. Many annihilationists uphold the glory of CHrist despite their other errors.


I think the word heretic gets thrown around too loosely. Not all error is damnedable error.

I am not sure denial of hell warrents it.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

I thought Stott was a universalist. Am I mistaken?

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For the Glory of our King,
Joe Johnson
Slave of Christ, husband, father, Preacherboy at Cornerstone Community Church, Escanaba, MI. and TMS graduate. Personal website - SoundLife.org

I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS

Absolutely. He's no universalist, if by that you mean all people will eventually get saved.

Stott believes in conditional immortality: the reprobate will suffer for a period in hell and then eventually cease to exist. His position can be seen in the book Essentials, which is a dialogue Stott has with the liberal theologian David Edwards. An interesting read.

Like Pergumum, I don't believe we should call this "heresy"; I don't see it as calling salvation into question, even though I don't agree with it. We need to be very careful with that word.

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Marty

"There is nothing so necessary to draw us to repentance as good thoughts of God." (Thomas Manton)

Whatever Perg! I STAND by what I wrote...end of story!

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~etexas~

Pergi...a denial of Hell...is in conflict with Holy-Writ. I have to note something, my Brother you have some GREAT posts here, you are witty and funny...lately, you seem very "in your face" to the people on the PB, you were not that way in many of your past threads and posts.....Brother, I hope if something is bothering you, you will PM someone or talk to your pastor...I just sence a lot of tension from you lately. Grace and Peace.

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~etexas~

No. It is not a newer position. Stott has apparently held to this view for some decades. He had, however, out of deference to his role in the leadership of evangelicals worldwide, not wanted to promote controversy. His 1988 book, Evangelical Essentials, a dialogue with liberal David Edwards is where he wrote openly about his views for the first time.

"The former [i.e., a traditional belief regarding hell] has to be described as traditional orthodoxy, for most of the church fathers, the medieval theologians and the Reformers held it. And probably most Evangelical leaders hold it today. Do I hold it, however? Well, emotionally, I find the concept intolerable and do not understand how people can live with it without either cauterising their feelings or cracking under the strain" (pg. 314).

He does go on to say that the mark of evangelical belief is not my feelings, but what has God said in scripture. And, here he marshalls several arguments from language, imagery, justice, and the so-called universalist texts to support annihilationism.

He concludes: "I am hesitant to have written these things, partly because I have a great respect for longstanding tradition which claims to be a true interpretation of Scripture, and do not lightly set it aside, and partly because the unity of the world-wide Evangelical constituency has always meant much to me. But the issue is too important to suppress, and I am grateful . . . to declare my present mind. I do not dogmatise about the position to which I have come. I hold it tentatively" (319-320).

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Saying that there is no hell is taking away (removing) from the Word of God who clearly says otherwise in many places.
Saying that there is no hell also presents God as a liar: God says there is a hell, the pastor says is not so. Obviously one is wrong and we do know who.

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Lolo Long
Calhoun Presbyterian Church, ARP
Calhoun, LA

Annihilationism is indeed a gross error, but the position is defended by Scripture. Its proponents are not simply disregarding the teaching of Scripture. There's a "two views" book on the topic. In a nutshell, they interpret the "second death" of the lake of fire to be an actual death, and would say that the "eternal" punishment of hell is to be taken figuratively in the same way Sodom and Gomorrah are said to be burning with eternal fire.

I remember that, because of this issue, there were some protests at Westminster Seminary when Stott spoke there.

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When I first saw this, I knew it was going to be Carlton Pearson. My pastor debated him on a local radio station in Los Angeles. It was atrocious (on Mr. Pearson's part).

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Nikki Edmond
Berean Christian Assembly (Reformed Baptist)
Tucson, AZ
HaveATulip Chat Room for Reformed Believers
Principle and Practice Blog
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Don, I am attempting to reconcile your first 2 statements. Gross error, yet defended by scripture appears to be some sort of oxymoron...

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N. Robert; Trinity Reformed Church RCA, Holland MI

Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

I assume it would be error in interpretation of Scripture. It is not as if Stott (forget Pearson for a moment) is denying that the Bible says these things. He is just interpreting the statements of Scripture in a manner that is not the traditional interpretation.

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There has to be a better way of putting it then...

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N. Robert; Trinity Reformed Church RCA, Holland MI

Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

If one even takes a cursory look at Church History one will notice a clear pattern, gross error in interpretation of Holy-Scripture, almost always is a stepping stone to full blown heresy. When Scripture is clear about about a matter, eternal punishmnt and eternal reward a denial of this to go against Holy-Writ...it is a very dangerous path, regardless of intent or how "good" a Pastor or teacher is.

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~etexas~

Amen!

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~etexas~

Why is it that "they" always say that hell is a medieval construct? I've read this in other so-called news articles and seen it in several productions from the History Channel and Discovery Channel. What's the deal?

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~James Helbert~, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS
TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn
"Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2

Sad. Do all of these guys read Brunner, Barth, Tillich? Where are they getting their ideas?

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~ Steven Bradford ~
Member Covenant Presbyterian, Chattanooga, TN

Interesting. I remember discussing this with my brother, who believes this view a few months ago.

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~ Steven Bradford ~
Member Covenant Presbyterian, Chattanooga, TN

I must say when I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it was about a pastor named "Denies Hell" (Denny's Hell")

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N. Robert; Trinity Reformed Church RCA, Holland MI

Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

Medieval artwork, probably. It was graphic. And then there was Dante's masterpiece, The Inferno. Take a bunch of stuff like that, and then add the point that said pictures aren't in the Bible (which, phrased that way, they aren't), then they can make the claim that the Medieval invented it.

Now, I can believe in a real, agonizing hell without adopting the "medieval construct" (although I have no bones to pick with it--no pun intended).

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College