Thread: The need to reclaim the term :Evangelical

A friend and I were talking about how many people "recoil" now from the term Evangelical my friend who holds his Theological from Duke, was in agreement that the use of Evangelical SHOULD be removed from the "saw-dust trail" connotations and be restored in it's classic and historic context, he gave an interesting analogy, the RCC has usurped the term "catholic" which is not their sole property, yet people shy from it because of the Roman use, when in fact in a broader semantic range can apply to the universal or whole body of Christ, a true Christian is in fact catholic "lower case c". In much the same manner Evangelical has been misused and usurped by certain churches as their OWN badge. In short the Church is catholic in nature and Evangelical in the sense of her mandate/or calling if you prefer, simply to make known the Truth delivered to the saints. I feel there is a tendency to flee right and truthful "words" when they have been misused rather than attempt to reclaim and restore them to their right proper and Biblical place. The list could go on, I am thankful the OPC did not "shy" from using Orthodox,it means straight/right/correct/proper. It is not the "property" of the Eastern Church. In short there is indeed a Divine Mandate upon the Church to be Evangelical, to my mind and that of my friends this means placing it back within a Biblical, Historic, Classic, and Semantic context. I wanted to "bounce" the idea here and see the feel of the PB on the reformed Christians in regard to reclaiming a VERY Biblical concept which has sadly been dropped on the basis of it's misuse. Would love any thoughts. Grace and Peace.

Originally Posted by etexas

A friend and I were talking about how many people "recoil" now from the term Evangelical my friend who holds his Theological from Duke, was in agreement that the use of Evangelical SHOULD be removed from the "saw-dust trail" connotations and be restored in it's classic and historic context, he gave an interesting analogy, the RCC has usurped the term "catholic" which is not their sole property, yet people shy from it because of the Roman use, when in fact in a broader semantic range can apply to the universal or whole body of Christ, a true Christian is in fact catholic "lower case c". In much the same manner Evangelical has been misused and usurped by certain churches as their OWN badge. In short the Church is catholic in nature and Evangelical in the sense of her mandate/or calling if you prefer, simply to make known the Truth delivered to the saints. I feel there is a tendency to flee right and truthful "words" when they have been misused rather than attempt to reclaim and restore them to their right proper and Biblical place. The list could go on, I am thankful the OPC did not "shy" from using Orthodox,it means straight/right/correct/proper. It is not the "property" of the Eastern Church. In short there is indeed a Divine Mandate upon the Church to be Evangelical, to my mind and that of my friends this means placing it back within a Biblical, Historic, Classic, and Semantic context. I wanted to "bounce" the idea here and see the feel of the PB on the reformed Christians in regard to reclaiming a VERY Biblical concept which has sadly been dropped on the basis of it's misuse. Would love any thoughts. Grace and Peace.

Reverend David Silversides has an excellent message on these problems with this very issue on Sermon Audio called, "What is an Evangelical?". I highly recommend it.

i doubt that "evangelical" will be able to be restored to have any significant meaning, at least for a generation. the word is too widely used by everyone that it really doesn't have any meaning. you'll have much more sucess modifying it, like "confessing evangelical", like ACE or ditching it all together for a different term. maybe this is why more people are gravitating toward the label "reformed", even if they're not TR (sorry if it aggrevates you TR folks).

When I was Lutheran I often shocked people by referring to us as "catholic." I love the term and defend its use.

Though Machen wasn't crazy about using it, I think the term "fundamentalist" ought also to be reclaimed and stood upon. I like it.

I also rejoice in being referred to as "TR" by my liberal (PCA) co-workers and publicly embrace their insult.

quote=asc;552713]i doubt that "evangelical" will be able to be restored to have any significant meaning, at least for a generation. the word is too widely used by everyone that it really doesn't have any meaning. you'll have much more sucess modifying it, like "confessing evangelical", like ACE or ditching it all together for a different term. maybe this is why more people are gravitating toward the label "reformed", even if they're not TR (sorry if it aggrevates you TR folks).[/quote]

[

Originally Posted by Jon 316

quote=asc;552713]i doubt that "evangelical" will be able to be restored to have any significant meaning, at least for a generation. the word is too widely used by everyone that it really doesn't have any meaning. you'll have much more sucess modifying it, like "confessing evangelical", like ACE or ditching it all together for a different term. maybe this is why more people are gravitating toward the label "reformed", even if they're not TR (sorry if it aggrevates you TR folks).

[[/QUOTE]
ALL the more reason to reclaim it! We always take the path of least resistance! EVEN if Evangelical were not replace in our lifetimes, this suggest we tuck tail and run like a cur dog, yelping: "You messed up and usurped a word so we don't want it anymore!" Words have VALUE and MEANING, we should not so lightly abandon them. If a group emerges the "redefines" reformed will we drop it. I do hope not.

Originally Posted by etexas

Originally Posted by Jon 316

quote=asc;552713]i doubt that "evangelical" will be able to be restored to have any significant meaning, at least for a generation. the word is too widely used by everyone that it really doesn't have any meaning. you'll have much more sucess modifying it, like "confessing evangelical", like ACE or ditching it all together for a different term. maybe this is why more people are gravitating toward the label "reformed", even if they're not TR (sorry if it aggrevates you TR folks).

[

ALL the more reason to reclaim it! We always take the path of least resistance! EVEN if Evangelical were not replace in our lifetimes, this suggest we tuck tail and run like a cur dog, yelping: "You messed up and usurped a word so we don't want it anymore!" Words have VALUE and MEANING, we should not so lightly abandon them. If a group emerges the "redefines" reformed will we drop it. I do hope not.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure you can. Once something evolves and broadens it has by nature changed. You cant stop people from using the new definition. E.G Gay... gay can never, seriously, be reclaimed. imho.

Originally Posted by etexas

ALL the more reason to reclaim it! We always take the path of least resistance! EVEN if Evangelical were not replace in our lifetimes, this suggest we tuck tail and run like a cur dog, yelping: "You messed up and usurped a word so we don't want it anymore!" Words have VALUE and MEANING, we should not so lightly abandon them. If a group emerges the "redefines" reformed will we drop it. I do hope not.

i don't think "retreating" from a name is cowardly. words are only useful if they can communicate something with meaning. if a word like evangelical is too ambiguous to be useful, toss it aside for a more meaningful word. it's not like it's a word used in the Bible (i know it's rooted in the Biblical word for gospel).

on a more practical note, i don't think you or i have the ability to recapture the word's meaning. as far as i can tell, the "evangelical" goats far out number the sheep, and i don't think they plan on giving up the name. or to switch analogies, the horse is already out of the barn.

Originally Posted by Jon 316

Originally Posted by etexas

Originally Posted by Jon 316

quote=asc;552713]i doubt that "evangelical" will be able to be restored to have any significant meaning, at least for a generation. the word is too widely used by everyone that it really doesn't have any meaning. you'll have much more sucess modifying it, like "confessing evangelical", like ACE or ditching it all together for a different term. maybe this is why more people are gravitating toward the label "reformed", even if they're not TR (sorry if it aggrevates you TR folks).

[

ALL the more reason to reclaim it! We always take the path of least resistance! EVEN if Evangelical were not replace in our lifetimes, this suggest we tuck tail and run like a cur dog, yelping: "You messed up and usurped a word so we don't want it anymore!" Words have VALUE and MEANING, we should not so lightly abandon them. If a group emerges the "redefines" reformed will we drop it. I do hope not.

I'm not sure you can. Once something evolves and broadens it has by nature changed. You cant stop people from using the new definition. E.G Gay... gay can never, seriously, be reclaimed. imho.[/QUOTE]
Don't agree my Brother. ARE you saying if a group began to misuse Reformed we should drop it. The Church has some guilt in letting "semantic" robbery occur and simply.......not caring, the English language is degraded,we did little to stop it.

I think the same could be said about the term "Christian"...seems everyone is a Christian these days.

etexas

Don't agree my Brother. ARE you saying if a group began to misuse Reformed we should drop it. The Church has some guilt in letting "semantic" robbery occur and simply.......not caring, the English language is degraded,we did little to stop it.

To be honest, many people are taking up the name reformed these days who would not be considered reformed by by some who most who consider themselves reformed. The fact that many charismatics are taking up the term means it is already evolving. And again there is the issue of those who do not commit to a 'confession' but still consider themselves reformed. There is a sense that the new use of the word refprmed will already be causing problems for those who hold to a more traditional definistion.

However, Like your man has already said, the real issue is the meaning behind the term. Reformed is not a scriptural term. The reformed faith will survive even if the word reformed begins to use its meaning.

Originally Posted by Jon 316

I'm not sure you can. Once something evolves and broadens it has by nature changed. You cant stop people from using the new definition. E.G Gay... gay can never, seriously, be reclaimed. imho.

Good example. I don't think "gay" will be used to mean "happy" for a long time, if ever. Languages change with time. The fact that pastors ranging from Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, and RC Sproul would all be considered by most people in the US to be "evangelical" means the term already has no more use for us, IMO.

Originally Posted by asc

Originally Posted by Jon 316

I'm not sure you can. Once something evolves and broadens it has by nature changed. You cant stop people from using the new definition. E.G Gay... gay can never, seriously, be reclaimed. imho.

Good example. I don't think "gay" will be used to mean "happy" for a long time, if ever. Languages change with time. The fact that pastors ranging from Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, and RC Sproul would all be considered by most people in the US to be "evangelical" means the term already has no more use for us, IMO.

I would not equate gay and Evangelical. My point is that within a proper theological understanding it is Biblical and should not be tossed aside.

I would not equate gay and Evangelical. My point is that within a proper theological understanding it is Biblical and should not be tossed aside.

To be fair it is the same issue though. Once the term is redefined and the majority of people are using the redefined term, use of the old term by a minority can become pointless as it will always need to be followed by several disclaimers and clarifications.

I think the same could be said about the term "Christian"...seems everyone is a Christian these days.

I wouldnt bother if the church abandoned this term either. Acts informs us it was the pagans who first gave us this name anyway.

I'm pretty sure we can just refer to ourselves as disciples of Christ and explain our doctrines rather than having to hang on to terms which are not essential to the faith.

Originally Posted by etexas

A friend and I were talking about how many people "recoil" now from the term Evangelical my friend who holds his Theological from Duke, was in agreement that the use of Evangelical SHOULD be removed from the "saw-dust trail" connotations and be restored in it's classic and historic context, he gave an interesting analogy, the RCC has usurped the term "catholic" which is not their sole property, yet people shy from it because of the Roman use, when in fact in a broader semantic range can apply to the universal or whole body of Christ, a true Christian is in fact catholic "lower case c". In much the same manner Evangelical has been misused and usurped by certain churches as their OWN badge. In short the Church is catholic in nature and Evangelical in the sense of her mandate/or calling if you prefer, simply to make known the Truth delivered to the saints. I feel there is a tendency to flee right and truthful "words" when they have been misused rather than attempt to reclaim and restore them to their right proper and Biblical place. The list could go on, I am thankful the OPC did not "shy" from using Orthodox,it means straight/right/correct/proper. It is not the "property" of the Eastern Church. In short there is indeed a Divine Mandate upon the Church to be Evangelical, to my mind and that of my friends this means placing it back within a Biblical, Historic, Classic, and Semantic context. I wanted to "bounce" the idea here and see the feel of the PB on the reformed Christians in regard to reclaiming a VERY Biblical concept which has sadly been dropped on the basis of it's misuse. Would love any thoughts. Grace and Peace.

1) What problems, exactly, will reclaiming a word solve?
2) It may be wise to first consult what current scholars working on this topic are saying, especially the Reformed of course. Perhaps the best place to start would be D.G. Hart's Deconstructing Evangelicalism--http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52494617&referer=brief_results See Here--where he argues for the essential meaninglessness of the term. From there I'd move on to recent work by Michael Horton, David Wells, and D.A. Carson.

Originally Posted by etexas

Originally Posted by asc

Originally Posted by Jon 316

I'm not sure you can. Once something evolves and broadens it has by nature changed. You cant stop people from using the new definition. E.G Gay... gay can never, seriously, be reclaimed. imho.

Good example. I don't think "gay" will be used to mean "happy" for a long time, if ever. Languages change with time. The fact that pastors ranging from Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, and RC Sproul would all be considered by most people in the US to be "evangelical" means the term already has no more use for us, IMO.

I would not equate gay and Evangelical. My point is that within a proper theological understanding it is Biblical and should not be tossed aside.

As far as the term "gay" and even "homosexual/ity" go, I believe that we need to use the terms "sodomite" and "sodomy" when speaking of that perversion, since those are the terms the Bible uses. My

Originally Posted by CatechumenPatrick

Originally Posted by etexas

A friend and I were talking about how many people "recoil" now from the term Evangelical my friend who holds his Theological from Duke, was in agreement that the use of Evangelical SHOULD be removed from the "saw-dust trail" connotations and be restored in it's classic and historic context, he gave an interesting analogy, the RCC has usurped the term "catholic" which is not their sole property, yet people shy from it because of the Roman use, when in fact in a broader semantic range can apply to the universal or whole body of Christ, a true Christian is in fact catholic "lower case c". In much the same manner Evangelical has been misused and usurped by certain churches as their OWN badge. In short the Church is catholic in nature and Evangelical in the sense of her mandate/or calling if you prefer, simply to make known the Truth delivered to the saints. I feel there is a tendency to flee right and truthful "words" when they have been misused rather than attempt to reclaim and restore them to their right proper and Biblical place. The list could go on, I am thankful the OPC did not "shy" from using Orthodox,it means straight/right/correct/proper. It is not the "property" of the Eastern Church. In short there is indeed a Divine Mandate upon the Church to be Evangelical, to my mind and that of my friends this means placing it back within a Biblical, Historic, Classic, and Semantic context. I wanted to "bounce" the idea here and see the feel of the PB on the reformed Christians in regard to reclaiming a VERY Biblical concept which has sadly been dropped on the basis of it's misuse. Would love any thoughts. Grace and Peace.

1) What problems, exactly, will reclaiming a word solve?
2) It may be wise to first consult what current scholars working on this topic are saying, especially the Reformed of course. Perhaps the best place to start would be D.G. Hart's Deconstructing Evangelicalism--http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/52494617&referer=brief_results See Here--where he argues for the essential meaninglessness of the term. From there I'd move on to recent work by Michael Horton, David Wells, and D.A. Carson.

Words have both meaning and value...

How does"Calvinist Evangelical" sound it seems to be flying about these days,any thoughts?