So which of these hills would you die on...?

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent." John Calvin

John from Scotland
Denomination: Attending Baptist church
Confessional Subscription:London Baptist Confession
Blog: [url]www.three-streams.co.uk[/url]

I didn't see a poll, so I looked at your avatar and saw only a lake and not a hill. So I suppose I could die in the lake if I couldn't swim.

Theognome

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Bill Cunningham
Covenant Reformed Church, URC
Kansas City
There are three kinds of people- those who can count, and those who can't.

What are the options?

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[B]Manley Beasley[/B]
Southern Baptist Convention
Fayetteville, Arkansas

[B]Wir sein pettler. Hoc est verum (We are beggars. This is true.).--Luther's dying words[/B]

You mean, "So on which of these hills would you die....?" Sorry, I couldn't resist since you had nothing else to say.

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

Ah- there's the poll. This is an easy one- none of them.

The only hill I'll defend to the last ounce of strength is Salvation through Grace in Christ alone.

Theognome

I mean...too easy...Those choices make it too easy...in my mind...Predestined, can define God's sovereignty in ALL things....so...that's it!

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WWW.SURFWRITERS.BLOGSPOT.COM
Trevor
Christian/Husband/Father/Writer/Teacher--
--In that order.
Bethany Church
CALIFORNIA
God is my King
Love God--Live Large

I'm not sure how some picked predestination and not perseverance.

I must qualify "once saved always saved" to mean Perseverance of the Saints.

Not the "easy believism" version of the doctrine.

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Donald Jacobs
Roanoke VA.
Covenant Reformed Episcopal Church.

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

Got to have the beginning before you can have the ending!

What are our options?

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Shalom,
jessi
PCA
Steelers fan exiled to Virginia


“Whatever your heart clings to and confides in, that is really your God.”
Martin Luther

I would only die on the hill of something that is absolutely crucial to the Gospel. While several of those I hold dear, I don't consider any of them to be absolute essentials of the faith.

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Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

I'm just saying if you have predestination then you also have perseverance. On this poll you can choose both.

Without having voted, I will say I am hitherto more than slightly disappointed. For all the rhetoric and vitriol thrown around these forums on baptism, nobody wants to make their last stand upon that hill.

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Paul Korte
OPC
Flint, MI

They who perceive in themselves discoveries of the divine goodness, so full and absolutely perfect, and who make them the subject of earnest meditation, will never embrace new doctrines, by which the very grace they feel so powerfully in themselves is thrown into the shade. --John Calvin

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Essential as in: the wicked will perish but for the grace of God sovereignly electing to save them, and thus holding on to them until they reach glory? If so, I saw those three, which I think ARE the Gospel!

sorry, I didn't know you could pick two...but, predestined, includes, perseverance...in my opinion.

I did! I almost didn't, because I was thinking, "Well, they can still grow up and be baptized, so maybe it isn't worth dying for," but I couldn't get past the fact that we are able to bring our infant children into God's covenant by baptizing them! So sure, someone could grow up and become baptized, but why deny him the benefits of being a part of the covenant from the very beginning of life onward?

The others I chose were:
predestination, for I think it is essential that we understand that our salvation comes from God as a gift that we cannot earn by making the right choice to accept him;

punishment of wicked, for I think it is essential that we determine exactly from what we are being saved;

and perseverance of the saints, because I think it is essential that we know that since the work is begun by God, He will finish it!

Non of the above !
I would kill the oponent if he did not hold mine

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Martin - Reformed
Husband to the most godly, honorable and loyal wife Line
Searching for a Church
Webpage www.5solas.dk
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
Soli Deo Gloria

lol!

I'm curious about the ones who chose

Ecclesiology and church government

Which model of church and government do you think is so essential to the faith (I ask this because I think both of these are more essential than is ofetn realised.)

I don't think I would die on any of those hills, and I even disagree with some of them However, there are some that I am quite convinced of and currently do not see how I could be convinced otherwise. If that's what you mean, then there would be quite a few.

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Mark Maney
Edmonton Chinese Baptist Church
Master of Theological Studies
Master of Arts (Cross Cultural)
Trinity Western University, ACTS Seminaries
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

What is meant by "Continuism (Charismatic Gifts)"? That Charismatic gifts (like speaking in tongues, prophecy, healing, etc.) continue?

Personally, for me, I would die on (at least I hope I would) any hill that Scripture is very clear on. I'm going to think about what that means, and then vote.

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Father of Oliver
Master of Bruce
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

What can I say, I like blogs!

yes, that is what that means.

So, would you really die for secondary issues?

I picked the same as Jessica. You go girl! I will die on the hill next ya.

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Traci
Lynnwood OPC
"I have taken all my good deeds, and all my bad deeds, and cast them through each other in a heap before the Lord, and fled from both, and betaken myself to the Lord Jesus Christ, and in him I have sweet peace."--David Dickson

Why must a certain doctrine be, in itself, "essential" to the gospel for it to be the place where we draw the line? For instance, it is no sign of disrespect to or a doubting the sound profession of my baptist brothers to say that I would go down upon that hill to preserve the purity of the church. I love them strongly, and believe just as strongly that such is an error and the church ought to be guarded against such error, though indeed the gospel itself can still stand.

Note what Vermigli said in his dedicatory preface affixed to his Dialogue on the Two Natures of Christ, dedicated to John Jewel. The following is with regards to the ubiquitarian controversy:

He surely did not consider the Lutheran ubiquitarian teachings to be essential to the gospel (he refused to call the teachings anything more than "unsound"); nor would he impugn the profession of Lutherans who held such a doctrine, but surely could love such as his brethren. But this did not mean that such was a teaching at which the line was not to be drawn: it was to be fought back boldly, lest by its thorn and thistle the pure fruit of God's church be squelched.

I mean, we're the PuritanBoard. I doubt anyone would argue that vestments are essential to the gospel, but they certainly staked it all on that hill; nor do I think they were foolish to do so.

If someone was asking me if I believed a secondary issue (any one you pick it) that is clearly scriptural, and if I answered wrongly they'd kill me or if they told me to answer wrongly and if I don't that they'd kill me. Then I would answer always rightly. I'd rather be honest than live this earthly life.

Is this not what you mean by, "what hill would you die on?" I'd die on anything Scripture says because it is God's Word.

For me the latter is assumed in the prior.

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Lance G. Marshall
Pastor
Georgetown, Indiana

Predestination - Ephesians 1 (clear in Scripture throughout) I would die for this
Everlasting Punishment of the Wicked - Everlasting Punishment/destruction (Mt. 26, 1 Thess.) I would die for this and live eternally
Non-Continuism - Scripture has ceased, this is clear, I would die for this
Continuism - this cannot be true, Scripture has ceased
Confessionism (your creed) - A Confession is man-made, I would not die for this, although i would fight
Infant Baptism - Gen. 17, Acts 2 - clear to me I would die for this
Believers Baptism (only) - Seems children were baptized in Scripture and throughout church history, this cannot be true (no offense to baptists, I wouldn't hold this over their heads, but I would die for it)
Ecclesiology - (this is too broad, I don't know what is being said here)
Church Government - Church where head is Christ, ruled by elders, 1 Timothy, Titus, Acts 6 - I would die for this truth
Once saved always saved - This has to do with salvation, if God has saved you, He will never leave you nor forsake you.

Predestination - gets at the heart of the gospel... but I might reword it to something like "By Grace alone". The whole "Here I stand I can do no other" theme... Luther was willing to die for it.

Eternal Punishment - I voted for this... but I know strong "reformed" brothers who lean toward annihilationism... But this idea is pretty central to the idea of just punishment for sin...

Perseverence of the Saints - That's the power of God to save! I'll die here

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Rob G.
Under care, OPC (currently an associate member at a PCA church)
Pittsburgh, PA

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.- 1 Cor. 1:18

so... who are you and what are you who will die for a form of church government and ecclesiology?

1 Corinthians 15:3

15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,..."

Would lose a job over predestination...I've seen too many non-productive discussions with the other issues....interesting poll, though! thanks

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Jim-Bob...The Hillbilly Hebrew. Shalom, Y'all!

They seem like some cool cats, and I think I like them (whoever they are).

I selected predestination, eternal punishment of the wicked, and perseverance of the saints (if that's what you mean by OSAS).

I believe those things are much more essential to unity than the other options, and I quite frankly am not that concerned about orthodox infant baptizers, believer's baptizers, different forms of church government, continuationism vs. cessationism, etc. I believe what I believe, but if people have different perspectives that they truly believe are taught in Scripture (see the baptism debate), I truly support them! Same with charismatic gifts, etc. All I want is Christ glorified above all things; less critical issues should be debated and considered among His body, but I'm not too concerned about it. This is why I would be more than willing to attend a good Presby church even though I am Reformed Baptist. I support their infant baptism if they believe Scripture teaches it; however, in my own family, I would not let it be done.

I am pretty inclusive and geared toward unity if it's among true believers that want to honor our Lord.

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Andrew Thornquist My Photo Album
Calvinistic Baptist
Ukiah, California
To follow Christ was the best decision God made for me!

ESV Onlyism, the only hill worth fighting for.

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Andrew DeShazo
Husband of Kathryn
Father of Phillip-Giles B. DeShazo
Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"From out of the depth of unbroken Infinfity arose the Question, "Who am I?" And to that Question there is the answer, "I am God!" -Meher Baba, died 1969.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Christ, died 33 AD, ressurected three days later.

I am almost with you, Andrew, but it's got to be a VeggieTales edition. Until then, I cannot stomach fellowship with you!

VeggieTales are an abomination.

Maybe it won’t be long for us to be called to that martyrdom,

to stand for the right to have the Bible and Preach the Bible!

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César Proença

there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17

Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954

Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt

I just knew you were a heretic.

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Rangerus
Southern Baptist
Austin, TX
Teacher and Volunteer
1689 LBCF & BF&M 2000

By grace alone
through faith alone
in Christ alone.

Thats my hill.

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Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25

I'm conflicted. Are your options of "infant baptism" and "believers baptism" mutually exclusive of one another?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
Board Rules - Signature Rules - Suggestion Box

It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

Yes, I would be assuming the traditional incompatibility and hostility of earlier days. you know the days before being outnumbered by common enemies caused baptists and presbyterian calvinists to walk to gether, the days when baptists would be drowned in lakes for their stance and when some baptists would take up swords...