I feel a burden to study apologetics and epistemology.

Where would you instruct someone to start in the study of apologetics and epistemology? I'm looking for books. I will probably start small but also give more challenging works that I can read soon after I get some basics down. I really want a detailed, lifelong, disciplined study of this, so where would you instruct me to start, and also what goals do you think I should strive for in terms of what monumental works on the subject that I should tackle?

Also, just any personal advice for one who is looking to study this? Any personal goals you think I should consider?

Links are good too but I'm primarily looking for books (I'll take links to online books too).

Thanks!

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Megan Meisberger
River Hills Community Church - EFCA (yes... same as charliejunfan)
Janesville, WI

Wife of matt.meisberger

<---- Naming my first son after him. My husband was saved while reading Religious Affections.

Megan,

If you've never studied apologetics/philosophy before the I would start with Richard Pratt's "Every Thought Captive".

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Chris Bryant
Attending Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA), McKinney, TX
Member of Christ Presbyterian Church (PCA), Tulsa, OK
M.A.R., WTS/Redeemer Seminary, Dallas, TX (in progress)

The most I have ever done with apologetics is read The Reason for God and I loved it. I have also listened to two or three podcasts.



I really want to delve into it now.

Don't read presuppositionalist literature.

Listen to lecture on The Veritas Forum by JP Moreland, William Lane Craig, and Alvin Plantinga at least--and check out others which sound interesting to you.

As for books, read 5 Views on Apologetics and introductory philosophy texts.

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Steven Nemes
Phoenix, AZ

Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy must be answered - C.S. Lewis

I agree. I am a big fan of Pratt.

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Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas

Why not?

And to those who are presuppositionalists: Why should I get into to it?

Because their arguments are no good.

William Lane Craig?

Start with " The Kingdom Of The Cults" by Dr. Walter Martin. James White has a bunch of videos on his youtube channel that will help you (there are also videos there of Dr. Walter Martin).

__________________
"I thank Thee that many of my prayers have been refused. I have asked amiss and do not have, I have prayed from lusts and been rejected, I have longed for Egypt and been given a wilderness".-Unknown

Julio, Amaya
Clifton, NewJersey
Reformed Baptist Church of North Bergen

I don't know why the eye-roll, but William Lane Craig is good stuff. He's a respected and well-known philosopher; I don't know why you don't like him.

Also Megan Mozart: study arguments for the resurrection of Jesus as opposed to arguments for the existence of God. The latter are not as powerful and as convincing as the former.

http://mp3.aomin.org/images/jpeg/WLCraigslist.jpg

Isaiah 46:10-11

10: declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying,'My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,'
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.

I just remember that I read The Case for Christ in the beginning of High School and I remember devouring it.

Isn't Craig one of the interviewees in that book?

Well, yeah, they're not Calvinists, but so what?

If the heretic of all heretics brandishes the greatest argument for the existence of a triune God, then who cares how his theology is?

The point is apologetics and philosophical argumentation, and you don't get that from the presuppositionalists, whereas you do get it from WLC and others.

-----Added 10/23/2009 at 06:00:22 EST-----

Yes he is in Case for Christ.

Amazon.com: Classical Apologetics (0025986449513): R.C. Sproul, John H. Gerstner, Arthur W. Lindsley: Books

Amazon

Amazon.com: An Introduction to the Philosophy of Religion (9780199263479): Brian Davies: Books

Amazon

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Nathan Tyler
Reformed Baptist
University of Toronto (Student: Hons. B.A. in Philosophy)
Ontario, Canada

1689'er

http://nathantyler.wordpress.com

Amazon.com: Reasons of the Heart: Recovering Christian Persuasion (9780875525952): William Edgar: Books

Amazon

Amazon.com: Creation Regained: Biblical Basics for a Reformational Worldview (9780802829696): Albert M. Wolters, Michael W. Goheen: Books

Amazon

I think the point is, "What are you apologizing for?" If you have a great argument that leads to salvation by works, what exactly have you accomplished.

CT

-----Added 10/23/2009 at 06:17:41 EST-----

I would say that the former makes no sense without the latter.

CT

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Hermonta Godwin
Christ The King PCA
Raleigh, NC

"Who cares how his theology is?" That is one phrase I would have never thought in a million years reading from anyone on this board. Well, I for one do care.

When William Lane Craig debated Chrisitoper Hitches and he was asked if any christian denominations were false, He replied "Ummm...well, I'm not a Calvinist. I think certain tenets of Reformed theology are incorrect." Maybe he can give good arguments as to the existence of the Triune God. But I reject Molinism as heresy. I rather listen to a reformed apologist. To each his own. Just dont be surprised when I roll my eyes at the William Lane Craig endorsments. His flaws concerning Sotierology and God's eternal decrees are enough for me to listen to someone else.

Look for Greg Koukl, he has a series of MP3s on defending the faith.

Also, find some debates between atheists and Christians(I recommend Bahnsen v. Stein and WLC's debates) and listen to/read them. Figure out what the arguments being used to support and critique each position are.

As for William Lane Craig--he's a brilliant philosopher, but his theology needs work. The arguments he uses, insofar as they go, are good, and I use them myself. But I think there's also a place for presuppositional apologetics.

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Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

Amazon.com: Faith Has Its Reasons: Integrative Approaches to Defending the Christian Faith (9781932805345): Kenneth D. Boa, Robert M. Bowman Jr.: Books

Amazon

I'd recommend Bahnsen's, "Presuppositional Apologetics" or Frame's "Salvation Belongs to the Lord".

Westminster Bookstore - Reformed Books - Low Prices - Flat Fee UPS Shipping - Presuppositional Apologetics: Stated and Defended (Hardcover) by Greg Bahnsen 9780915815555

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Michael Masztal
Ruling Elder, Chapel By The Sea, ARP
Melbourne Beach, FL

Steven, an unbeliever will never be brought to the light of the gospel through philosophy. I could say more, but I would ask you to read Romans 1:16-17, and 1 Corinthians 1:17-2:5 very carefully. The Apostle puts it far better than I ever could. Philosophical arguments will come and go, and woe to those who put their faith and trust in them! Blessed are those who put their trust in Christ and his gospel, and "how beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" Those men who spend their time dressing up the gospel with things like philosophy - the wisdom of this world - will (one day) see the error of their ways. I hope they see it sooner rather than later. Can a man who is sent to preach the gospel be counted faithful when he doesn't do it, but rather fills the ears of hearers with more respectable sounding arguments?

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Rob S.
New Creation RPC
Kitchener, ON

If you want to learn apologetics from a presuppositionalist perspective, I would recommend that you read Always Ready by Greg Bahnsen, The Battle Belongs to the Lord by Scott Oliphint, and Ask Them Why by Jay Lucas. The book by Jay Lucas contains many fictitious conversations between a believer and an unbeliever. These fictitious conversations give examples of how apologetics is done from a presuppositionalist perspective.

If you want to learn about Classical Apologetics, I would recommend reading JP Moreland's book, Scaling the Secular City. The book discusses the arguments for God's existence, the meaning of life, the historicity of the New Testament, Christ's resurrection, philosophy of science, and so on.

A World of Difference by Kenneth Richard Samples discusses different criteria that one can use when evaluating worldviews. This book gives a critique of naturalism, postmodernism, pantheistic monism, Isalm.

Without a Doubt: Answering The 20 Toughest Faith Questions by Kenneth Richard Samples is a good book.

The following link will go to a set of lectures given by Douglas Groothuis. This was for his apologetics class at Denver Seminary. He calls himself a Calvinist.
This Week's Apologetic Lecture

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Curt Hayashida
member, Community Bible Church (Non-denominational)
Vallejo, CA

I'm glad to read the few posts on here that don't have an axe to grind against presuppositionalism


Bahnsen, van Til and Gordon H. Clark would probably be good starting points. Bahnsen's Always Ready is good.

Van Til's Defense of the faith is a tough read, but good.

Gordon H. Clark has a good book called Lord God of Truth with was bound with Augustine's De Magistra; both good. Clark has the added benefit of being intelligible. A Christian View of Men and Things may also be a good place to start.

Cheers,

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Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA

"I fear not to hold with Junius, de Politia Mosis cap. 6, that he who was punishable by death under that Judicial law, is punishable by death still; and he who was not punished by death then, is not to be punished by death now."

That's great advice for a new wife. From a young man. Getting good fruit from bad trees.

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Tim Vaughan
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian, OPC,
Santa Maria
California

I'd echo this recommendation, especially Clark's "A Christian View of Men and Things."

If you are interested in specific fields of apologetics (like science), Clark also has several books critiquing non-Christian views of science, history, language (Lord God of Truth address that topic), etc. If you are interested in those titles, I can post a more comprehensive list.

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Joshua Butcher
PCA
College Station, TX

I would start with Schaeffer's How Shall We Then Live? as a starting point for a good overview of the history. In my (albeit limited) experience, knowing the history behind ideas is as important as knowing the ideas. Very often, distorted views of history are huge stumbling blocks in dialogue (I'll add that, in my opinion, Van Tillians are guilty of over-simplifying the history of ideas). Half of the time, I find myself disputing the false views of history that are common now (e.g. The gnostics were just alternate versions of Christianity that didn't make the cut; Islam is a religion of peace and equality; etc.).

I would also recommend R. C. Sproul's Consequences of Ideas series as well as the Silencing the Devil series of mock debates between Sproul and Gerstner.

For a Christian epistemology, I would recommend Thomas Reid (echoing all pre-modern thought--including the reformers) or even a little Plantinga.

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Philip
Potomac Hills Presbyterian Church (PCA) Leesburg, VA
Attending Reformed Presbyterian Church, Lookout Mountain, GA
Student Covenant College

The Importance of Being Orthodox

YES. I am definitely interested in the science. Let's hear that list.

Yea, DON'T DO IT!

Seriously Megan,

Even Bahnsen reminisced that he didn’t know how good he had it as a delivery boy driving around listening to the radio. His greatest problems in life by his own admission were as a philosopher and apologist (and not a theonomist). At the very least, do proceed with caution, the subject can consume you. I wouldn't trade those hours of mental anguish for anything but I cannot tell you how often have I felt like Michael Corleone when he said "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." What I mean by that is don't let epistemology consume you.

Ron

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Ronald W. DiGiacomo / Ruling Elder
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Elkton, Maryland

http://reformedapologist.blogspot.com

Ron, I understand what you're saying.

I've considered these things before. As far as I can tell, I'm convinced that it is only the Holy Spirit that changes hearts, and not those who can argue eloquently and convincingly. I know that even a simple presentation of the gospel from one who is not learned in philosophy can be used mightily by God.

At the same time, I do think it is still a worthwhile pursuit to know why I believe what I believe, and that it's not simply believing things that have no evidence in history, science, archaelogy, philosphy, etc. Not saying that that's what you're doing

Pratt is good as a primer.

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Ewen
1689 LBCF
Assemblies of God Bible College
Singapore

Indeed, far from me to say that apologetics is not a noble enterprise and even our bounden duty according to each one's ability.

For what it's worth, here are some links to some articles:

Articles in Apologetics (Updated 3/28/07)

Apologetics – Articles Theology and Apologetic Resources

Chew on the meat and spit out the bones!

Ron

I know you're not, but you must be kidding.
Advice to "stay away" from someone as clear-minded as Bahnsen in favor of Molinists?

-----Added 10/23/2009 at 09:42:07 EST-----

Assertion with no support. Support, please.

__________________
Donald P. Grubb
theol46@embarqmail.com

Berean Baptist Church, Mansfield, OH
Mansfield, OH

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Should we be in here?

Ewen: think positive. Remember what Mr. Smiley said a couple weeks ago? "Who's know what would have happened to David [when he fought Goliath] if he didn't believe in himself?"

Megan, I have benefited greatly from Bahnsen's Always Ready, a little pamphlet by Van Til called Why I believe in God, and Pratt's Every Thought Captive so far. There is also Bahnsen's Van Til's Apologetic that I have to read, but the thing is a beast! I highly suggest works from Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries International. There's a lot of fantastic scientific information between the two. Their books are great

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Andrew Thornquist My Photo Album
Calvinistic Baptist
Ukiah, California
To follow Christ was the best decision God made for me!

Sorry dude, but that really deserves a , a, and a .

Yah, Dr. Bahnsen really sucked in those areas...

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Michael Tremmel
attending Christ Reformed Baptist Church
Hales Corners, WI.

Isaiah 46:5-11

I have set the Lord always before me; because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken. Ps.16:8 ESV

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. 1 Cor.15:10a ESV

Praecepta docent, exempla movent (precepts teach, but examples move)

Frame's Apologetics for the Glory of God isn't bad.

AMR

-----Added 10/23/2009 at 10:59:20 EST-----

Here we go again. Sigh.

AMR

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Patrick
Member, PCA
Chandler, AZ
ReformedTheologyInstitute.com

I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.

I would say to balance out the presuppositionalists with common sense thinkers. No good presupper is going to deny evidence or common grace just as no common sense apologist is going to deny that our presuppositions play a significant role in the interpretation of evidence.

So yes, read your Bahnsen, Van Til, Plantinga, etc, but also read Aquinas, Anselm, Sproul, and Lewis.

Also be aware that presuppositionalism as such is a peculiarly American Calvinist phenomenon. I am not aware of any British or international apologists who have used the method, though historically it drew from the Dutch neo-Calvinist tradition of Kuyper, etc. as opposed to the common sense realism that dominated American seminaries until Van Til.

In a previous post, someone mentioned the value of knowing about the history of ideas. Here is a book that discusses the history of western thought from a Christian perspective:

Megan,

First I would like to ask why the interest in apologetics? It's important just as a calling to preach or teach. Also I would warn anyone getting into an apologetic ministry to be grounded well in the faith before diving in. Apologetics isn't for the faint of heart. Remember you will be studying up on Satan's weapons and tools and it can cause one to question his/her faith at times, however it also strengthens one's faith as you learn how to defend the faith with scripture and good reason and logic.

I'm currently studying apologetics at Trinity School of Apologetics online. Just do a Google search. It is a tuition free graduate school from India, headed by Dr. Johnson Philip. Very sound biblically and very demanding in the amount of materials and study required. It only costs a minimal amount to enroll and you have 2 years to complete a Masters program. I would challenge you to check it out. God bless.

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Rick
Teacher/Apologist
Baptist
SE Missouri

I just bought Koukl's new book "Tactics" into my Apologetics class. Koukl says what I've been trying to say, but so much better. His MP3s are excellent. Koukl's website is Stand to Reason: Stand to Reason: Equipping Christian Ambassadors with Knowledge, Wisdom, and Character.

I'd also recommend listening to some of James White's (Alpha & Omega Ministries) talks in his You Tube page. YouTube - DrOakley1689's Channel

Here are Some Links to Reformed Apologetics sites.

-----Added 10/24/2009 at 10:10:02 EST-----

A Classic work of presuppositional apologetics is Why I Believe in God by Cornelius Van Til

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Presbyterian Church of Coventry (PCA)
Coventry, CT
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk
Interim Pulpit Supply of New England

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