Theological ForumSystematic Theology, Biblical Theology and just plain Theology discussions Grow in the grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Pe. 3:18)
I was reading through the Foreword, by Valerie Becker Makkai, of Poythress and Grudem's book on gender neutral translations of the Bible, when I came across the following statement:
Quote:
I understand that the teachings of the Bible were intented for people of a differerent era, and I am perfectly capable of interpreting those teachings and applying them to modern times.
This statement made me thought: For whom was the Bible written? Only for the first Christians and not for us? What about Paul's statements in Rom.15:4 viz:
Quote:
For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
and 1 Cor. 10:11
Quote:
Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
__________________
Johan
Reformed Churches in SA (GKSA)
South Africa
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I. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence, do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary unto salvation; therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his Church; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the holy Scripture to be most necessary; those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
**emphasis mine**
Scripture is given for the Church in ALL ages, then and now.
__________________ James Helbert, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn "Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2
Scripture is given for the Church in ALL ages, then and now.
James,
This is an excellent point, and vital to stress. Since the rise of German Rationalism, even conservative scholars have slowly come to abandon the Augustinian and Reformed doctrine of inspiration, viz. that God directly breathed through the authors (His amanuenses), and that God is therefore the sole Author of Scripture, thought He used many pens. This directly affects how people approach Scripture as an evolving book, or a timeless book.
Cheers,
__________________
Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA
"I fear not to hold with Junius, de Politia Mosis cap. 6, that he who was punishable by death under that Judicial law, is punishable by death still; and he who was not punished by death then, is not to be punished by death now."
2 Timothy 3:15-17
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
The gospel is the message of salvation. The Scriptures have the gospel. It was able to make Timothy wise unto salvation.
In bringing the gospel to the world, we are to teach and preach what the Scriptures contain, so in a sense the Scriptures are for unbelievers.
As evident in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, as well in other passages, Scripture is for the benefit of the Church
__________________
Nathan Riese
Under Care, PCA
Trinity Presbyterian Church, Aledo, Illinois
Current student at MBBC
Future student of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary www.gpts.edu
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But what do you say about Valerie Makkai's statement that the reachings of the Bible was intended for a specific era? Can one believe in the Divine inspiration of the Scriptures and still say that it's teachings was intended for a certain era only and now we have to work out how to apply these teachings today?
I Thinks that verses like John 20:31, 1 Corinthians 9:10; 1 Peter 1:10-12 all show that Scripture is written for a future audience.
Consider this, if it were written for a single audience for one time usage, then what is written to perpetuate Christianity if the Bible's purpose is not for us but is expired?
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But what do you say about Valerie Makkai's statement that the reachings of the Bible was intended for a specific era? Can one believe in the Divine inspiration of the Scriptures and still say that it's teachings was intended for a certain era only and now we have to work out how to apply these teachings today?
They may believe in a modified (and I would argue erroneous) doctrine of inspiration. I would not call it the historic Reformed position, but I would not count them as heathen. Craving respectability? Sure. Children of a post-Christian society? Sure. But not heathen. Now, if this doctrine of theirs leads them to say that the Bible is the word of man as well as the Word of God, then, yes, this is a rejection of the foundation of our faith.
Add to all that Deuteronomy 29:29: "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."
__________________
MarieP
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, KY
"I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies and of all the truth which You have shown Your servant" (Gen. 32:10)
who the scriptures were written to and who they were written for are two totally different questions. The original scriptures were written to various groups at that time. For example, the book of Philippians was written to the church at Philippi, etc. But the bible was written for everyone, including us today.
who the scriptures were written to and who they were written for are two totally different questions. The original scriptures were written to various groups at that time. For example, the book of Philippians was written to the church at Philippi, etc. But the bible was written for everyone, including us today.
Great distinction, Andres! We ask "What did this mean to those who were being addressed?" but also ask "What application does it have for us today?" Denial of the first would lead to esotericism and subjectivism. Denial of the second would lead to dead orthodoxy and coldness of heart.
Of course, some parts of Scripture are more directly applicable to us than others!
-----Added 10/24/2009 at 03:52:13 EST-----
Holy Bible, Book divine,
Precious treasure, thou art mine;
Mine to tell me whence I came;
Mine to teach me what I am.
Mine to chide me when I rove;
Mine to show a Savior’s love;
Mine thou art to guide and guard;
Mine to punish or reward.
Mine to comfort in distress;
Suffering in this wilderness;
Mine to show, by living faith,
Man can triumph over death.
Mine to tell of joys to come,
And the rebel sinner’s doom;
O thou holy Book divine,
Precious treasure, thou art mine.
- John Burton
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who the scriptures were written to and who they were written for are two totally different questions. The original scriptures were written to various groups at that time. For example, the book of Philippians was written to the church at Philippi, etc. But the bible was written for everyone, including us today.
Andres, I understand that. However, can one really with such confidence say that "I am perfectly capable of interpreting those teachings and applying them to modern times"? I have quite often heard someone saying that we have to think of ourselves as the first hearers when we read, say, Phillipians. BUT, can we really do that? I don't think so.
VI. The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word; and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and the government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.
VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed, for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.
It is the Holy Spirit's job to interpret Scripture. Therefore, we don't need a perfect understanding of ancient history.
who the scriptures were written to and who they were written for are two totally different questions. The original scriptures were written to various groups at that time. For example, the book of Philippians was written to the church at Philippi, etc. But the bible was written for everyone, including us today.
Andres, I understand that. However, can one really with such confidence say that "I am perfectly capable of interpreting those teachings and applying them to modern times"? I have quite often heard someone saying that we have to think of ourselves as the first hearers when we read, say, Phillipians. BUT, can we really do that? I don't think so.
Since you used the word however I believe you are taking exception to my previous post, only I am not sure with what. I never said it anything along the lines of interpretation being easy. Proper exegesis starts with understanding the text in it's original context (the to who was it written) and then applying it to our lives today (who was it written for - us)
who the scriptures were written to and who they were written for are two totally different questions. The original scriptures were written to various groups at that time. For example, the book of Philippians was written to the church at Philippi, etc. But the bible was written for everyone, including us today.
Andres, I understand that. However, can one really with such confidence say that "I am perfectly capable of interpreting those teachings and applying them to modern times"? I have quite often heard someone saying that we have to think of ourselves as the first hearers when we read, say, Phillipians. BUT, can we really do that? I don't think so.
Since you used the word however I believe you are taking exception to my previous post, only I am not sure with what. I never said it anything along the lines of interpretation being easy. Proper exegesis starts with understanding the text in it's original context (the to who was it written) and then applying it to our lives today (who was it written for - us)
Andres,
No, I don't take exception at all. I think we miss each other. Will reply later.
Andres, I understand that. However, can one really with such confidence say that "I am perfectly capable of interpreting those teachings and applying them to modern times"? I have quite often heard someone saying that we have to think of ourselves as the first hearers when we read, say, Phillipians. BUT, can we really do that? I don't think so.
Since you used the word however I believe you are taking exception to my previous post, only I am not sure with what. I never said it anything along the lines of interpretation being easy. Proper exegesis starts with understanding the text in it's original context (the to who was it written) and then applying it to our lives today (who was it written for - us)
Andres,
No, I don't take exception at all. I think we miss each other. Will reply later.
okay, thank you. I am glad you said that as my confusion stemmed from the fact that I thought you took exception, yet I agreed with what you said also!
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I think this passage tells for whome scripture was written. It is for God's people. The Man of God (teaching elder) in particular.
No one but the elect can understand it:
1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
__________________
David
PCA
Richardson, Texas
Saving faith is an immediate relation to Christ, accepting, receiving, resting upon Him alone, for justification, sanctification, and eternal life by virtue of God's grace.
--C.H. Spurgeon
I think we miss each other. Will reply later.
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