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Theological Forum discuss Who are the modern Puritans? in the Theology forums; Are there any modern Puritans in todays world or are we restricted to using the term "Puritan" to a period of time frozen in history?...

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    Who are the modern Puritans?

    Are there any modern Puritans in todays world or are we restricted to using the term "Puritan" to a period of time frozen in history?

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    If the term can be used of anyone today, Joel Beeke gets my vote.
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    I actually use the terms Puritan and Covenanter to describe myself. You say "Presbyterian" and most ppl immediately think of the liberal end of PCUSA (in my experience...I know this isn't all). If someone can relate to one of those two groups then they understand when I say I'm a modern puritan/covenanter.
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    Dr. Beeke was the first to come to my mind as well. Many may disagree, but John Piper ranks up there as well.

    peace,

    jm
    Last edited by JM; 11-27-2006 at 08:00 PM. Reason: sp
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    The PB may not like me calling myself Reformed but even us Reformed Baptists can be known as descendants of the Puritans. Just look at Bunyan.

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    PresReformed is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    I believe that The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland is about as Puritan as it gets nowadays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by puritancovenanter View Post
    The PB may not like me calling myself Reformed but even us Reformed Baptists can be known as descendants of the Puritans. Just look at Bunyan.
    Amen! Then again, I'm a bit of a Rebel...the Lee and Jackson type.
    [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Ivan Schoen ~ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=black]The Church in [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Poplar Grove, IL[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black]=================================[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black]"As a single footstep will not make a path on the earth, so a single thought will not make a pathway in the mind. To make a deep physical path, we walk again and again. To make a deep mental path, we must think over and over the kind of thoughts we wish to dominate our lives." ~ Henry David Thoreau[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black][/LEFT]
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    Quote Originally Posted by crhoades View Post
    If the term can be used of anyone today, Joel Beeke gets my vote.
    Frankly, he is the first person to come to my mind too.
    [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Ivan Schoen ~ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=black]The Church in [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Poplar Grove, IL[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black]=================================[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black]"As a single footstep will not make a path on the earth, so a single thought will not make a pathway in the mind. To make a deep physical path, we walk again and again. To make a deep mental path, we must think over and over the kind of thoughts we wish to dominate our lives." ~ Henry David Thoreau[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black][/LEFT]
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    VirginiaHuguenot is offline. Puritanboard Librarian
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    I think that the term "Puritan" is tied historically to a particular era (mid-1500's to early 1700's) and place (England, Scotland, Ireland, Holland and America) and that, generally speaking, Jonathan Edwards is considered the "last Puritan."
    Andrew

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    The Valley of Vision is said to contain Puritan prayers, yet, it's also said it contains a prayer from CH Spurgeon...
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    Valley of Vision - Description: A selection of prayers and meditations in the Puritan tradition...

    Many have followed in the footsteps of the Puritans and do so even today. But the term itself has a historical connection to a period in time that ended about 200 years ago.
    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot View Post
    I think that the term "Puritan" is tied historically to a particular era (mid-1500's to early 1700's) and place (England, Scotland, Ireland, Holland and America) and that, generally speaking, Jonathan Edwards is considered the "last Puritan."
    *scoff* Word Pharisee. The spirit of the term counts most, not the letter. Joel Beeke gets my vote, too.
    Laura
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura View Post
    *scoff* Word Pharisee. The spirit of the term counts most, not the letter. Joel Beeke gets my vote, too.
    I've been called worse -- Puritannical, for instance!

    I'm blessed to sit under Puritan preaching every Lord's Day, and I'm a big fan of Joel Beeke. As an (amateur) historian, however, I reiterate that the Puritan Age is over. As one who believes in Puritan postmillennialism, I am convinced their spirit will live on and, by God's grace, prosper. There have been different names throughout history for Biblical Christians, usually pejorative. Who knows what faithful Christians will be called in the 21st and 22nd centuries? As someone once said (not a Puritan), "The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself, though it may be at another time and in another form."
    Andrew

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    As far as being the closest theological descendants of Puritanism (i.e. Savoy Declaration Congregationalism), The Conservative Congregational Christian Conference is the closest.
    Don, missionary candidate
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    I like to think of myself as a Puritan in that I am inside the Church of England trying to reform it to the word of God...just like Thomas Cartwright:

    1. http://www.evangelical-times.org/art...4/jan04a11.htm
    2. http://www.evangelical-times.org/art...4/feb04a13.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot View Post
    Valley of Vision - Description: A selection of prayers and meditations in the Puritan tradition...

    Many have followed in the footsteps of the Puritans and do so even today. But the term itself has a historical connection to a period in time that ended about 200 years ago.
    If a prayer is in the Puritan tradition, isn't it a Puritan prayer? Kind of like, "I'm a Christiani in the Baptist tradition so I'm a Baptist [reforming]."
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    VirginiaHuguenot is offline. Puritanboard Librarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM View Post
    If a prayer is in the Puritan tradition, isn't it a Puritan prayer? Kind of like, "I'm a Christiani in the Baptist tradition so I'm a Baptist [reforming]."
    A Puritan prayer is a Biblical prayer. If one collected a book of early church father prayers and included Thomas Aquinas, it wouldn't make Aquinas an early church father, though he might be following in their tradition, because that is a descriptive term that has an historical association to a particular era in time. Likewise, Spurgeon, who was Puritan-minded, was not part of the Puritan era, although John Bunyan, for instance, was.
    Last edited by VirginiaHuguenot; 11-28-2006 at 09:28 AM.
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    Question

    Would you consider a person to be a modern day puritan who, being calvinistic, and a meticulous student of the puritans both historically and experimentally (very much like Beeke), is a non-reformed believer, a Baptist, even a fundamentalist .
    For the sake of His Name,

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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot View Post
    I think that the term "Puritan" is tied historically to a particular era (mid-1500's to early 1700's) and place (England, Scotland, Ireland, Holland and America) and that, generally speaking, Jonathan Edwards is considered the "last Puritan."
    That is why I said descendants of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot View Post
    I think that the term "Puritan" is tied historically to a particular era (mid-1500's to early 1700's) and place (England, Scotland, Ireland, Holland and America) and that, generally speaking, Jonathan Edwards is considered the "last Puritan."
    Andrew is correct. It is even more narrowly defined by some historians (Fischer,et.al.) as English spec. East Anglia and the new world immigrants from that region.

    I think both (historical) usages are appropriate depending on context; Those who hold to "Puritain" ideas and those who are "Puritains".
    TE Kevin Rogers
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM View Post
    Are there any modern Puritans in todays world or are we restricted to using the term "Puritan" to a period of time frozen in history?

    Who's the guy with the forked beard? I don't recognize him.
    I'll probably feel like a dummy when you tell me.
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    bookslover is offline. Puritanboard Postgraduate
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot View Post
    I've been called worse -- Puritannical, for instance!

    I'm blessed to sit under Puritan preaching every Lord's Day, and I'm a big fan of Joel Beeke. As an (amateur) historian, however, I reiterate that the Puritan Age is over. As one who believes in Puritan postmillennialism, I am convinced their spirit will live on and, by God's grace, prosper. There have been different names throughout history for Biblical Christians, usually pejorative. Who knows what faithful Christians will be called in the 21st and 22nd centuries? As someone once said (not a Puritan), "The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself, though it may be at another time and in another form."
    I'm glad you're not amil, but you have not yet come all the way home, my son. Come back to the light of day, my son. Come all the way back...to the historic premil position, the only position the Scriptures teach (heh, heh).

    Follow the light, follow the light...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bookslover View Post
    Who's the guy with the forked beard? I don't recognize him.
    I'll probably feel like a dummy when you tell me.

    B. H. Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by puritancovenanter View Post
    The PB may not like me calling myself Reformed but even us Reformed Baptists can be known as descendants of the Puritans. Just look at Bunyan.
    The finest preacher I've ever heard (S. Hartland) is Reformed Baptist, and I think he's very much a Puritan in both theology and style. His sermons last about 1 hour, but you wouldn't know it because the time seems to fly by.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
    I like to think of myself as a Puritan in that I am inside the Church of England trying to reform it to the word of God...just like Thomas Cartwright:
    This raises a question that, for me, is quite timely and significant. (Chances are those who know Puritanism much better than I have known the answer for quite a while, but I'm still learning.)

    Is it possible to be liturgical and still be a Puritan? I understand that many of the Puritans were indeed of the Church of England and used the BCP.

    Or would you say that one must one hold to the regulative principle to qualify as a Puritan?

    The reason I ask is that a number of us will be leaving our present denomination to form another church. Though we're not quite sure what it will be, many are asking that we remain liturgical. Though I lean towards the regulative principle I'm not loathe to use, say, the 1928 BCP.

    What say y'all?
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    Kevin,

    Naturally, it depends on what we mean by "liturgical" - after all, in the strict sense, every worship service has a liturgy. Even so, I know it typically conveys a more "high church" order of worship in people's minds, which I would say is certainly not contrary to the Regulative Principle or Puritan worship, given that the elements themselves remain the same.

    Though I have not yet read it myself, Darryl Hart's book Recovering Mother Kirk: The Case for Liturgy in the Reformed Tradition has been highly commended by many. You might want to check it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me Died Blue View Post
    Kevin,
    Though I have not yet read it myself, Darryl Hart's book Recovering Mother Kirk: The Case for Liturgy in the Reformed Tradition has been highly commended by many. You might want to check it out.
    Thank you for the comments and the recommendation. I've just purchased Hart's book.
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    Not sure but I would say John Piper as well. Also not to sound ignorant (I've only been Reformed about 2 1/2 yrs) but who is Joel Beeke? Any books from him?
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    bookslover is offline. Puritanboard Postgraduate
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3John2 View Post
    Not sure but I would say John Piper as well. Also not to sound ignorant (I've only been Reformed about 2 1/2 yrs) but who is Joel Beeke? Any books from him?
    Beeke has authored or edited about 40 books, I think. He is a Dutch Reformed pastor, scholar, and author. He is president and professor of systematic theology and homiletics at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is also pastor of the Heritage Netherlands Reformed Congregation in that same city. His latest book (with Randall J. Pederson) is Meet the Puritans: With a Guide to Modern Reprints.

    His website: www.heritagebooks.org. He's one of the good ones!
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    Thank you for that. I will now have to read one of his books.
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    Beeke has some excellent sermons as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me Died Blue View Post
    Beeke has some excellent sermons as well.

    I'll say! I downloaded many of them and transfered to my MP3. now when I walk in the mornings I often listen to one of Beeke's sermons.

    He was at the 2006 Banner of Truth conference in Penn. I asked him why he always repeats his points at the beginning of his sermons. He said it was to help out those note-takers who write slow.
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    Dr. Beeke has inflanced me beyond anyone else [when it comes to prayer and meditation]. He is a true Puritan and faithful brother.
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    I'd vote for Iain Murray too.
    *Peter Gray* Elkins Park RPCNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    I'd vote for Iain Murray too.
    Murray has written many excellent books, and has done yeoman work since the 1950s in promoting the Puritans.

    The only stain on his career was his re-writing of Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God to suit himself. Not a very ethical move, frankly.
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    His "Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism", "Wesley and the Men Who Followed" and his attack on psalmody have also been quite a stain on his career. I think he has lost a lot of credibility in his scholarship since he began trying to rewrite history to his own thinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bookslover View Post
    Murray has written many excellent books, and has done yeoman work since the 1950s in promoting the Puritans.

    The only stain on his career was his re-writing of Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God to suit himself. Not a very ethical move, frankly.
    what do you mean? I have the BT "Sovereignty of God", what did he change?
    *Peter Gray* Elkins Park RPCNA

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    As I've said before, I prefer the old Murray to the new Murray on the regulative principle of worship.
    Quote Originally Posted by PresReformed View Post
    His "Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism", "Wesley and the Men Who Followed" and his attack on psalmody have also been quite a stain on his career. I think he has lost a lot of credibility in his scholarship since he began trying to rewrite history to his own thinking.
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    Calvin in the Hands of the Philistines: Did Calvin Bowl on the Sabbath?
    The Regulative Principle: The Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference” (Samuel Miller).
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  39. #39
    Peter's Avatar
    Peter is offline. Puritanboard Junior
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    Murray's work on conversion and assurance outweigh his bad views on worship. The first two are a far more important part of puritan theology. Thanks for bringing them to my attention though. Otherwise I would've lumped him in with puritan giants like Beeke.
    *Peter Gray* Elkins Park RPCNA

    "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. " Mk 9:24
    "The greatest thing we can desire, next to the glory of God, is our own salvation; and the sweetest thing we can desire is the assurance of our salvation. In this life we cannot get higher than to be assured of that which in the next life is to be enjoyed. All saints shall enjoy a heaven when they leave this earth; some saints enjoy a heaven while they are here on earth." Joseph Caryl

  40. #40
    PresReformed is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    what do you mean? I have the BT "Sovereignty of God", what did he change?
    I believe he removed about 7 chapters from the book that he didn't agree with. The Baker edition is complete.
    Greg Fox
    Westminster Presbyterian Church (WPCUS)
    Columbus, IN

    http://puritanreprints.com

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