Mine too.

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~James Helbert~, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS
TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn
"Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2

I don't mean any disrespect when I ask this: But what does it matter if hold such a view when your denomination isn't the established church?

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Casey Bessette
Westminster OPC • West Suburbs of Chicago • My Blog: Paradise Regained

"It is part of the calling of the ekklesia to learn to know the love of Christ that surpasses all knowledge and also to make known within the world of science 'the manifold wisdom of God' in order that the final end of theology, as of all things, may be that the name of the Lord is glorified. Theology and dogmatics, too, exist for the Lord's sake." — Herman Bavinck, Reformed Dogmatics, vol. 1, p. 46

A witness to the truth, grounded upon God's Word, always matters.

The same question could be directed to any witness to any particular subject where God's Word testifies to the duties of ecclesiastical or civil authority which are, in reality, lacking or deficient. If God requires it, it is better to testify to that truth, according to our place and station, then leave this doctrine, which is part of the whole counsel of God, left unsaid or actively opposed.

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. (Heb. 2.8)

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Andrew Myers
Husband of Jessica, Father of Jackson, Katie and Samuel
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church of Northern Virginia
Warrenton, VA USA
Editor, The Matthew Poole Project

"Let your Morning Thoughts, and your last Evening Thoughts, be what shall become of you to all Eternity." -- Matthew Poole

Amen, brother. I entirely agree with your response. Probably I didn't form my question properly. Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread.

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Casey Bessette
Westminster OPC • West Suburbs of Chicago • My Blog: Paradise Regained

"It is part of the calling of the ekklesia to learn to know the love of Christ that surpasses all knowledge and also to make known within the world of science 'the manifold wisdom of God' in order that the final end of theology, as of all things, may be that the name of the Lord is glorified. Theology and dogmatics, too, exist for the Lord's sake." — Herman Bavinck, Reformed Dogmatics, vol. 1, p. 46

I have already indicated that I'm fine with the term "confessional" baptist and that I agree with Scott's differentiation. However, it is not difficult to see where the confusion comes from as the following quotes come from the Encyclopedia of the Reformed Faith.

By the way, does John Gerstner count as a Truly Reformed guy? This was his take on baptist theologian, Strong . . .

And, in a discussion of revivalism . . .

And, when discussing "Calvinism in America" . . .

These were all different articles by different scholars, all of them Reformed, writing in the Encyclopedia of Reformed Theology. Hey, guys. Don't beat up us baptists too badly when your own reference books make the same "mistakes."

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

A few questions and comments:

Is John Owen reformed? Wasn't we a congregationalist?

Who has the right to give us a sliding scale of who is more reformed than others?

Isn't it a prerogative of every group to define themselves as they wish. Presbies may sniffle and moan but if baptists want the category "reformed" in front of their names to identify themselves with the 1689 confession, then the reformed cannot stop them and should stop their whining.

Last time I checked there was no little copyright symbol above the name reformed.

Finally, given the company of those that call themselves "reformed" to include many groups that are grossly deviant in doctrine (whole groups falling away into apostasy), being a baptist who calls himself reformed or calvinisitic puts me in a lot better company.


P.S. Particular Baptist is a brand that is currently being used by many who trace their lineage from the anabaptist tradition. Therefore, this label, too, does not fit, for those that desire a modified WCF and are happy with the 1689. The term Sovereign grace baptist also is sometimes associated with more of a Fundyist and anti-confessional stance and so is not an adequate label. I prefer to simply call myself calvinistic and baptistic.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Earlier in this thread, I suggested Calvinistic Baptist as an appropriate title, even though Reformed is not. Later on, I found Blueridge Baptist's idea to be the best: "confessional baptist."

Interestingly though, Spurgeon (a baptist) had no problem with all of these terms.

One of his greatest pieces was "A Defense of Calvinism," certainly thinking he was speaking ab out his own view.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Pergy,

Really? I have never heard the term used other than to describe Reformational baptists (you know the ones tracing to Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli) AGAINST the anabaptists. In church history it was used to differentiate the Calvinistic baptists who believed in a "particular redemption" (the larger group) from the Arminian ones (the smaller group).

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I have heard others use the term "Historic Baptist" but that can be problematic as well because some will associate it with Landmarkism.

__________________
Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

I enjoy using the term Reformed Baptist in conversation with people who ask what I believe. Everyone has heard of Baptist churches. When I say "reformed" They almost always respond with- What do you mean reformed baptist? This tells me that unlike most of the brethren in here ,the person who inquires about the adjective reformed , does not know the difference between , a Baptist, Presbyterian,Christian Reformed ,etc.
So I use it as an opportunity to explain that in general that believer's in these churches are generally more earnest in their desire to search out the truth of scripture.
I then in some way speak to the doctrines of grace. I try to make a simple yet clear explanation of the saving work of Christ.
I point out that I can fellowship with any believer who is saved by the blood of Christ, that we are brother's, even if we might differ on some of what we understand from scripture.
In linking to the term "reformed" I have always tried to lengthen the cord,and strengthen the stakes. What I mean by that is, I like some of what Luther wrote, but I am not Lutheran . Why are we not all Lutherans?
I like what I have read about some of the Scottish Covenanter's in the book Fair Sunshine, Why are we not all Scottish Covenanter's?
Many of my books are written By Presbyterian's. Indeed I am eternally grateful to God that he has used many different living stones, with different levels of maturity to help me learn more about the word of our God.
So in general ,in public, I am not meeting that many persons who make as fine a distinction as some of you brother's are want to do.
If I can plant a seed in someone's mind that God will allow to grow I will rejoice with the angels for that person if and when God gives new life to them.
I would not have a problem with linking a new convert with most of the men in here, because I know that you are in the word,and serious about the command to make disciples. If you are teaching something that needs correction, I am confident that the Spirit of God is able to correct and guide His Sheep, despite some of our failings as we have this treasure in earthen vessels.

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Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

I'm not sure he would appreciate his name being used at all for "labels", but point well taken.

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Ivan Schoen, Pastor * Maranatha Baptist Church * Poplar Grove, Illinois USA www.maranatha-sbc.org/
“One of the most important discoveries I have ever made is this truth: God is most glorified in me when I am most satisfied in him. This is the motor that drives my ministry as a pastor. It affects everything I do.” --- Dr. John Piper

Luther also was amazed that anyone would attach his name to the Church, referring to himself as a Pig if I remember correctly.

__________________

(Norseman Moderator)

R. Martin Snyder
1689er
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)
PuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
PuritanCovenanter's MySpace Page

"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

That would be because we're not Scottish. And yet there is no reason why we should not all wholeheartedly embrace the principles taught in the covenants seeing as they are the very principles taught by the Bible.

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Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I haven't figured out the Keeling side of my family tree, whether they are Irish or English, but I don't think they came from Scotland.

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Ivan Schoen, Pastor * Maranatha Baptist Church * Poplar Grove, Illinois USA www.maranatha-sbc.org/
“One of the most important discoveries I have ever made is this truth: God is most glorified in me when I am most satisfied in him. This is the motor that drives my ministry as a pastor. It affects everything I do.” --- Dr. John Piper

Historically, there were two group of Reformers: the Magisterial Reformers and the Radical Reformers. The Magisterial Reformers comprised of the Lutherans, Presbyterians, Calvinists and Baptists. The Radical Reformers comprised of the Anabaptists and the Moravian Brethren.

R. Scott, why do you feel only the Presbyterians should have a stake on the term, "Reformed," when historically, Presbyterians were just one of many?

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Will Shin
Rockville, MD