Total Depravity...

nicnap · #1 (**permalink**) 10-02-2008, 07:03 PM

Men, after conversion, is man no longer totally depraved? I haven't thought this through, but it was espoused in class. Would we say this because natural/unregenerate man is totally inable and now according to WCF 9.4 he, the new man, is now able to do spiritual good?

What say ye?

Scott1 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-02-2008, 07:09 PM

Big topic.

A remnant of the fall remains in man after God regenerates him. The controlling power of sin (the "bias", the "bondage" toward sin) is really broken through Christ.

The battle between the "old nature" and the new, regenerated one is constant and the focus of sanctification. Over time, the new nature will become more evident because the constituent nature of the person has really, miraculously changed.

Perfection is reached in the state of glory only and until then the world, the flesh and the devil remain enemies of the Christian, but being overcome by Him too.

biggandyy · #3 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008, 10:59 AM

I have always considered the act of regeneration as the re-enabling of the posse non-peccare (the ability to not sin) that was lost in The Fall. Our exercising of this new ability available to us is made manifest throughout the journey of our sanctification in our lives.

I hope that made sense.

***Joshua*** · #4 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008, 11:00 AM

I would liken it to the difference between being under the dominion/captivity of sin, or merely having a residue of indwelling sin.

FrielWatcher · #5 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008, 11:04 AM

I would think that he would be able to do spiritual good. Yet, I think that if at anytime he think himself outside of totally depraved, he is fooling himself and then will fall once again. Yet, again, being in our condition, if we look at Paul or Peter etc..., they were in the Spirit and performed wonders given to them by the Father. This was limited.

Our regeneration today would afford us forgiveness of sins but not the ability to escape our nature. Even the best pastor who is for Christ and Christ for him, stumbles. And one violation of the law violates the entire law -> total violation -> total deprivation.

Gesetveemet · #6 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicnap

Men, after conversion, is man no longer totally depraved? I haven't thought this through, but it was espoused in class. Would we say this because natural/unregenerate man is totally inable and now according to WCF 9.4 he, the new man, is now able to do spiritual good?

What say ye?

A man or woman who is unregenerate is totally depraved, hates God and wants nothing to do with Christ neither is capable of pleasing God. Only after conversion/regeneration is a man is no longer totally depraved and able to do spiritual good. The Apostle Paul "By the grace of God" after his conversion/regeneration turned from sin and to God saying "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?".

Quote:

. . . when God accomplishes his good pleasure in the elect, or works in them true conversion, he not only causes the gospel to be externally preached to them, and powerfully illuminates their minds by his Holy Spirit, that they may rightly understand and discern the things of the Spirit of God; but by the efficacy of the same regenerating Spirit, pervades the inmost recesses of the man; he opens the closed, and softens the hardened heart, and circumcises that which was uncircumcised, infuses new qualities into the will, which though heretofore dead, he quickens; from being evil, disobedient, and refractory, he renders it good, obedient, and pliable; actuates and strengthens it, that like a good tree, it may bring forth the fruits of good actions.

Canons of Dort, Article 11

Quote:

And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. Acts 9:6

Quote:

Of Good Works
1. Q. What are the fruits of faith and sanctification?
A. Good works. James 2:18. Show me thy faith, by thy works.
2. Q. What are good works?
A. Deeds that are performed: (1) of faith; (2) according to the law of God, (3) to the glory of God.
3. Q. Prove that they must proceed from faith.
A. Heb. 11:6. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
4. Q. Prove that they must be performed according to the law of God.
A. Matt. 15:9. In vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
5. Q. Prove that they must be directed to God's glory.
A. I Cor. 10:31. Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
6. Q. Must we do good works?
A. Yes. Matt. 5:16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
7. Q. Can such good works merit heaven?
A. No. Christ alone hath merited that for us.
8. Q. Why not?
A. Because they are imperfect. Isa. 64:6. And all our righteousness are as filthy rags.
9. Q. Why must we then yet perform good works?
A. (1) To glorify God thereby; (2) to edify our neighbours; (3) to assure ourselves of our faith.

A Specimen Of Divine Truths by the Rev. A. Hellenbroek

mshingler · #7 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008, 12:04 PM

I would answer that, after regeneration, a man is no longer totally depraved. His basic inner constitution is changed/renewed by the Holy Spirit. So a regenerated man is able to truly seek God and do that which is pleasing to God. However, he is still utterly dependent on God's grace so that he can always say that, in and of himself, he is unable to do God's will (Rom. 7:18).

Interesting question to me as I just preached on Rom. 3:9-20 this past Sunday.