Is there anything wrong with this explanation?

From: Shedd, William G. T., Commentary on Romans (1879)

There's something about it that doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps it's this matter of God being "permissively inactive." I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

NOTE: If a moderator thinks this would be better in the "Wading Pool" feel free to move it. I almost put it there anyway. Thanks

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I think that it is correct as far as it goes, and perhaps this is as far as it is proper to go.

__________________
Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

Any other comments?

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

Any thoughts on the concept of God being "permissively inactive"?

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

WCF 5:4, "The almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness of God so far manifest themselves in His providence, that it extends itself even to the first fall, and all other sins of angels and men; and that not by a bare permission, but such as has joined with it a most wise and powerful bounding..."

__________________
Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."

I think God does more than just not redeem the lost; I think he made the lost. Prov.16:4 - "God has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble."

__________________
Charles Plauger
Member/Grace Reformed Church
Oakland, MD

"...and otherwise ordering and governing them, in a manifold dispensation, to his own holy ends..."

Exactly. And thus my problem with Shedd's wording here. I have read with profit much from Shedd, but this idea of "permissive inactivity" really puzzles me. Am I just "straining at gnats here, or is Shedd really as "off" on this as I think he appears to be?

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I obviously disagree with the notion that reprobation is on the basis of bare permission for that would undermine the idea of Providence altogether.

I do think, however, that there is a distinct difference in the character of workmanship and activity toward the elect in comparison to the reprobate. There is asymmetry and not symmetry. God is the author and finisher of our faith. Christ is interceding for us and ensuring that He who began a good work in us will see it to completion. There is not a corollary in the Scripture with respect to God's activity toward the reprobate. He is not the author of sin and He is not given credit for man's rebellion in the way He is given for the redeemed man's obedience unto Him.

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
OPC

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Would you say then that reprobation, rather than being based in "permissive inactivity" is based more along the lines of an active decree?

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

No, you are rightly dividing the word of truth. Shedd often taught sub-Calvinistic concepts; perhaps the influence of the New England school upon him.

__________________
Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."

Thank you. I appreciate the comment about asymmetry rather than symmetry, but a few verses come to mind that make me wonder.

Peter speaks of those who "stumble at the Word...where unto they were appointed..." And Jude speaks of those who were "before of old marked out for this condemnation..." and Paul talks about "vessel of wrath prepared for destruction..." So, it seems to me that God is indeed active in the reprobation of the lost.

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I've been reading Shedd on Romans, and I've agreed with most everything I've read from him up to this point. It was rather startling then when this section just seemed to come out of no where. Thanks for your help.

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

Hmmm, could one hold to that asymmetrical view and yet ascribe to double predestination, or are they mutually exclusive of the other?

__________________
Andrew DeShazo, Deacon, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"All of us stumble in many ways, but if anyone is never at fault in what he says, then he is mature, able to control his whole body."(James 3:2)

Zenas--

Good question. Anyone?

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I didn't state he was inactive. I already noted that it was not a bare permission. My point is that there is no 4 chapter corollary to Romans 5-8 that speaks definitively about God's activity toward the reprobate. There is no "golden chain" of reprobation where the sinner sees God impelling Him toward sin and judgment. We need to recognize the very special care and attention that God pays toward His own and not assume that, on the reverse side of the coin, he's doing the exact opposite to every reprobate. Even Paul's language about the two vessels in Romans 9 is distincitively different in terms of care and attention. One vessel is being lavished with attention while the other is being endured.

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
OPC

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Right, I get that. That is what WCF 5. 4 says:

I guess my "sticking point" right now is: Though we affirm it is not a matter of "bare permission," and that there is no "golden chain of reprobation," yet there definitely seems to be a sense of God's direct agency in the reprobation of the non-elect. Can we know "where the line is?" (so to speak). Or is this one of those areas that are a "mystery?" "How far" does Scripture allow us go in our understanding of God's agency in reprobation?

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

In my opinion, I would say so. I think he is actively working and restraining all things to his glory, both regarding the wicked and the just. In my mind, Godly passivity is just his negative activity. A wrestler uses both to get his opponent off balance and accomplish his desired end. I assume God does the same with the wicked and the just. He "works all things according to the counsel of his will".(Eph.1:11) He even makes vessels for dishonorable use, (Rom.9:21), so much so that such a one can say, "why have you made me like this?" (Rom.9:20).

__________________
Charles Plauger
Member/Grace Reformed Church
Oakland, MD

Personally, I'm not comfortable speculating beyond what the Scriptures reveal at this point. I believe that the will of the creature is not overthrown nor the contingency of secondary causes by God's decree of all things. I do not precisely understand the activity in reprobation.

One thing that really has struck me over the last several weeks as I'm going through Acts chapter by chapter is how the response of the Sanhedrin and other rejecters of the Gospel is in stark contrast to the same evidence and same News as others who were cut to the heart. I suppose I could speculate on God's agency in hardening their hearts to such clear Truths. I mean, really, what kind of hard heart does one require to see the healing of a lame man since birth and then tell the Apostles to stop preaching in the Name the man was healed?! It struck me, though, that this is exactly how they treated Christ's miracles.

There has got to be some sort of profound spiritual blindness that doesn't see the inconsistency between what they notice must be the case and how they decide to deny what they know. The Synagogue of the Freedman drum up charges against Stephen because they cannot withstand his exegesis. Instead of submitting to the Truth they kill the person with the Truth. Why? It makes no sense.

I cannot simply state that God is somehow the author of this because Romans 10, as elsewhere, never allows men the out to say "...God made me deny it...." Romans 1 clearly condemns men for their supression of the Truth.

I cannot be certain of how spiritual blinding works in all its details but I am very certain how it is I see and rejoice and that is by the agency of the Gospel and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. I can speak all day long about how God makes men alive who were dead in transgressions and sins but there is a respectful distance I maintain before I'll venture into speculation about the agency God uses to blind men. I know He does it and I know He'll be glorified in the punishment of men for it. I also know that nobody will be able to answer against their Creator for it and will have to acknowledge that His judgment is Just. That's enough for me.

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
OPC

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: