Penal Substition: Why isn't Jesus in hell?

Davidius · #1 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 04:38 PM

Here is a question I've had for some time about the penal substitution theory of the atonement.

If Christ is our substitute, why doesn't he have to spend eternity in hell?

If eternal separation from God is the punishment for sin, AND
Jesus suffered the punishment we deserved for sin, THEN
Jesus is punished by eternal separation from God.

Jesus is not eternally separated from God, THEREFORE
Jesus did not suffer the punishment we deserved for sin.

What am I missing here?

Pergamum · #2 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 04:42 PM

Jesus suffered hell INTENSIVELY in those moments on the Cross. Due to his infinite nature, his suffering did not need to be spread out over all eternity.

We, on the other hand, suffer hell EXTENSIVELY, and try to pay for all eternity - but that last farthing can never be paid.

Davidius · #3 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Jesus suffered hell INTENSIVELY in those moments on the Cross. Due to his infinite nature, his suffering did not need to be spread out over all eternity.

We, on the other hand, suffer hell EXTENSIVELY, and try to pay for all eternity - but that last farthing can never be paid.

I don't understand the intensively/extensively distinction, but regarding Christ's nature, he has the same human nature we have, does he not? And wasn't this the nature that suffered? How could He suffer a different punishment in His human nature, which is the same as ours?

***fredtgreco*** · #4 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 04:48 PM

Being God, He could pay the infinite penalty of sin, since He is infinite. Men, being finite pay the penalty of sin over an infinite period of time (that is one of the reasons that annihilationism is wrong).

If you do not take Christ's God-ness into account, even your suggestion falls short - how could Christ (being one Person) be in hell forever for multiple persons?

Davidius · #5 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

Being God, He could pay the infinite penalty of sin, since He is infinite. Men, being finite pay the penalty of sin over an infinite period of time (that is one of the reasons that annihilationism is wrong).

If you do not take Christ's God-ness into account, even your suggestion falls short - how could Christ (being one Person) be in hell forever for multiple persons?

So do we say that he paid the penalty of sin not in his human nature, but his divine nature, since his human nature isn't infinite (or is it)?

Pergamum · #6 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 04:49 PM

i.e He PAID it and it is FINISHED. We must always be trying to pay it and never succeed (hence the reason for the eternality of hell).

***fredtgreco*** · #7 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidius

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

Being God, He could pay the infinite penalty of sin, since He is infinite. Men, being finite pay the penalty of sin over an infinite period of time (that is one of the reasons that annihilationism is wrong).

If you do not take Christ's God-ness into account, even your suggestion falls short - how could Christ (being one Person) be in hell forever for multiple persons?

So do we say that he paid the penalty of sin not in his human nature, but his divine nature, since his human nature isn't infinite (or is it)?

Aspects of both. The Larger Catechism is helpful here, clearly stating that Christ had to be both God and man (for different reasons):

Quote:

Q. 38. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be God, that he might sustain and keep the human nature from sinking under the infinite wrath of God, and the power of death,144 give worth and efficacy to his sufferings, obedience, and intercession;145 and to satisfy God’s justice,146 procure his favour,147 purchase a peculiar people,148 give his Spirit to them,149 conquer all their enemies,150 and bring them to everlasting salvation.151

Q. 39. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be man?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be man, that he might advance our nature,152 perform obedience to the law,153 suffer and make intercession for us in our nature,154 have a fellow-feeling of our infirmities;155 that we might receive the adoption of sons,156 and have comfort and access with boldness unto the throne of grace.157

Q. 40. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God and man in one person?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator, who was to reconcile God and man, should himself be both God and man, and this in one person, that the proper works of each nature might be accepted of God for us,158 and relied on by us as the works of the whole person.159

In other words, only as a man could he be our substitute, and only as God, could he pay the price of the substitute.

Pergamum · #8 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 05:00 PM

WOw, David, you are going back through an re-examining every single doctrine aren't you!

ChristianHedonist · #9 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 05:34 PM

Christ, being the infinite God, was able to make a one time sacrifice of infinite value, to atone for our infinite debt. We, as finite creatures, would have to suffer for eternity to meet our infinite debt.

Davidius · #10 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianHedonist

Christ, being the infinite God, was able to make a one time sacrifice of infinite value, to atone for our infinite debt. We, as finite creatures, would have to suffer for eternity to meet our infinite debt.

So Christ's humanity was not finite like ours.

ChristianHedonist · #11 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidius

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianHedonist

Christ, being the infinite God, was able to make a one time sacrifice of infinite value, to atone for our infinite debt. We, as finite creatures, would have to suffer for eternity to meet our infinite debt.

So Christ's humanity was not finite like ours.

Christ's human nature, by definition of being human, was finite. Thus, even a perfect man who was only a man could not have paid the infinite debt for our sins. However, because Christ has not only a human nature but also an infinite divine nature, he is able to pay our infinite debt.

TimV · #12 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

So Christ's humanity was not finite like ours.

It was like ours, until after the Resurrection, when it became glorified and perfect/infinite. But His bodily suffering was just a small proportion of His total suffering. Thus, "MY God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me" becomes horribly poignant.

kalawine · #13 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 08:18 PM

Davidius,
I've always wondered about this myself. Thanks for bringing up the question. I'd also like to thank Pergamum, Pastor Greco and Dan for their excellent answers. They were all very good in my opinion. It's all very clear to me now. Thanks guys.
Kevin

kalawine · #14 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimV

Quote:

So Christ's humanity was not finite like ours.

It was like ours, until after the Resurrection, when it became glorified and perfect/infinite. But His bodily suffering was just a small proportion of His total suffering. Thus, "MY God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me" becomes horribly poignant.

Yes, very good answer.