Natural and Moral Ability

christianyouth · #1 (**permalink**) 02-15-2008, 02:10 PM

Hi everyone, I have been hearing about this concept a lot. Could someone please explain it?

BobVigneault · #2 (**permalink**) 02-15-2008, 02:23 PM

Andrew, can you give us a little more context in relation to your question?

christianyouth · #3 (**permalink**) 02-15-2008, 04:11 PM

Hehe, sorry I should have been more specific.

I have been trying to figure out how God could hold people responsible for refusing to repent and believe on Christ if that person has no ability to do so. So as I was thinking about this, I started wondering about Total Depravity, and if that entails Total Inability. I always thought it did because of these verses: Eph 2:1, John 6:44, 1 Cor. 2:11, 1 Cor. 2:14.

I was listening to Piper, and he said something interesting. He said something along the lines of, "Man is UNABLE because he is UNWILLING." And I think he made reference to the differences between natural and moral ability.

So I thought, the Bible speaks of man freely and actively suppressing the truth they know about God. I know that 'none seek after God', and this would necessitate God sovereignly saving. I'm just thinking, maybe the invitation to come to Christ in genuine, and man freely rejects it because he is enamored with his sin? So, it would be 'total unwillingness' and not 'total inability'. Not sure if I'm way off on this one.

Sonoftheday · #4 (**permalink**) 02-15-2008, 04:52 PM

The problem is many teach that God will only command people to do that which they are capable of doing. This is a lie not found in the bible. God almost always commands us to do that which we are unable to do, that is why God gets all the credit for salvation.

Jesus commanded a dead Lazurus to rise, something he was completely incapable of doing, yet he rose because God gave him the strength. Jesus commanded the lame to walk and blind to see, they were unable to do these things. God commands us to repent and believe these are two things we are both unable to do and Unwilling to do, but in all of us whom he saves he makes us willing and able.

Lazurus was unable to raise, and we too are unable to raise from being dead in trespasses and sin. Is Total Depravity 'Total Unwillingness' or 'Total Inability' the answer is Yes. It's both. There will never be a person who is willing that will perish because everyone who is willing is able. There will never be a person is able that will perish because everyone who is able is willing. They are tied together and cannot be seperated.

mvdm · #5 (**permalink**) 02-15-2008, 05:22 PM

Edward's brilliant work "Freedom of the Will" is summarized/explained in this article, highlighting the distinction between natural/moral ability:

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biblicalthought · #6 (**permalink**) 02-15-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

"Man is UNABLE because he is UNWILLING."

The natural man is "unable" because he is dead.

Quote:

And I think he made reference to the differences between natural and moral ability.

This appears to be a false dichotomy. Natural ability is described in such places as Romans 8:7-8 - as "cannot." Moral ability should be replaced with moral account-ability. This will preserve the universal accountability of all men even though they are unable to do so. If this is explored further, the question of responsibility usually arises. The Bible doesn't speak in terms of response-ability, only accountability. The difference is substantial.