Concerning the intermediate state and this passage in Luke 16:19-31

This passage I find very interesting. I never have understood the reluctance of many of the commentaters to see this passage as speaking to an actual reality.
For example, why could it not be saying that in the intermediate state, we have a temporary spiritual body,until the last day full ,final ,state of the body?
Paul speaks of being clothed, or unclothed in 2 Cor.5;1-11
particularlily in verse 2-40

John in Revelation see the "souls' of those who were put to death. How do you see a spirit?
The scripture says there is a spiritual body. Why can it not have a visible form? Angels are spirits ,yet they manifested in a bodily form at different times.
If we do not have a "form" or body-what are we? An electrical impulse?
The scripture does not go into explicit detail on this, so I do not think it is wise to attempt to either. It is just that I find myself thinking that with all we do not know about what happens when we leave the body 2Cor.1-3,why limit what is possible?

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Why be in a rush to limit or shut dowm what could be? In other words in the Lk16 passage- can it be an actual description of the condition of those in the intermediate state/before the White throne judgemment takes place?
Can there be a temporary spiritual form/body that they are in torment in now?

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Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

The 2 Corinthians passage is perplexing to me.

I don't know what Paul is speaking of here, but the idea that it is some type of "temporay" body seems to be discounted by verse 1. Whatever this is that we are to "clothed with" the text tells us that it is "...a building from God, a house not made with hands, ETERNAL in the heavens..."

Can something eternal also be temporal?

I think that Paul is refering to our new (or resurrected) spiritual bodies as we read of in 1 Corinthians 15:35-49.

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
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"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

Sterling,
I agree that he is looking for the eternal house ,not made with hands . I think these verses are speaking of the idea that Paul does not want to experience the process of death, but yearns for a perfected body.
I remember a pastor working through these verses saying that when we seperate from our physical body,our spirit wants to be [clothed upon] like baby bird who waits for all of its feathers to surround his body.
My speculation was not in regard to the eternal house [ resurrection body],
but rather the possibility of our spirit having a form that is visible outside of the natural realm.
In 1 cor 15/ he had commented on the order,first then earthly,than the spiritual.
There are verses that indicate the bodily resurrection as the last day.
I know Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
He says absent from the body
When we are absent from it,and it is not yet the last day, what does a spirit or spiritual body consist of. In Lk.24 Jesus said this
Because it does not have flesh,and bones can it not have a form that we could describe as having parts, fingers , tongue, speaking?

__________________
Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

Anthony:

There is another thread I read earlier this evening that mentions Dr. Robert A. Morey. (Probably why I remembered this book when I read your note).

I would recommend Morey's book Death and the Afterlife (Bethany House Publishers, copyright 1984).

He has an excellent discussion on these verses in 2 Corinthians 5 on pages 209-211.

I don't know if his book is available as a download or not.
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As to the nature of the temporal or spiritual body, whether "because it does not have flesh,and bones can it not have a form that we could describe as having parts, fingers , tongue, speaking?"...

I don't know how to answer that one. It seems that it is just speculation which can't be supported by a "Thus saith the Lord" to conclude either way.

Oh, and another book which is helpful in this area, is Loraine Boettner's Immortality (Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1965).

Boettner's discussion of the Intermediate State can be found on pages 91-159.

Hope these sources are of some help to you.

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk