Bob On Free Will

KMK · #1 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 10:00 AM

On this thread: Can the will be compelled and voluntary simultaneo

Bob posted this:

Quote:

Can the Human Will be both compelled and voluntary simultaneously?

The answer is yes. The terms are not mutually exclusive and we complicate matters by lining them up against each other. The voluntary aspect is a function and a necessary result of the compulsion. It's primary and secondary means. I won't get into all the questions you brought up but I believe the first can be answered by way of an illustration.

Have you ever noticed as you're driving down the freeway, a fly buzzing around inside your car. I moves and weaves in seemingly random motions, it hits against the windows and changes directions. The fly is free to buzz around and is only constrained by the limits of your car. However, to someone outside your car the fly is flying at 65 mph, pretty fast for a fly, and it's overall direction is the same as the car. The car is compelling the fly in a definite direction as the fly follows it's simple choices.

I thought that was an awesome analogy and I used it in sermon I preached this Sunday concerning predestination. People keep coming up to me and telling me how they loved the analogy about the fly! I slaved over a 45 minute sermon and all they remember is the part that Bob wrote!

Thanks, Bob!

BJClark · #2 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 10:09 AM

Poimen · #3 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 10:26 AM

Good one.

I put up a giant sign of Bob (just his head) on the highway with directions to our church and we doubled in size at one service.

Southern Presbyterian · #4 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poimen

Good one.

I put up a giant sign of Bob (just his head) on the highway with directions to our church and we doubled in size at one service.

Just his picture? No comment or a promise they'd get to meet him?

Wow! Now that's "Bawbness".

BobVigneault · #5 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 11:22 AM

I don't know what to say. I'm flattered to know that I'm a rumor in my own time. I know the feeling Pastor. I've written some songs with very deep messages but people I run into remember my stupid novelty songs.

I've written two musicals (one was performed on horseback), over 50 songs, I play several instruments and I believe I have 'some' talent. Three weeks ago I agreed to be part of our church talent show. I was to play the part of the Peach in 'The Hair Brush Song'. All I did was walk onto the scene wearing only a towel. The laughter was more boisterous than any I'd ever received for any display of what I thought was talent; the peels of revelry lasted a good minute.

All I ever wanted was to be loved for my mind but it turns out, people love me for my body. All the clever lines and rhymes are forgotten, just show them a little shoulder and naked knees and the masses go crazy.

moral necessity · #6 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

All I ever wanted was to be loved for my mind but it turns out, people love me for my body. All the clever lines and rhymes are forgotten, just show them a little shoulder and naked knees and the masses go crazy.

Sounds like a statement many women have said before!

Rev. Todd Ruddell · #7 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 03:08 PM

The way I heard it years ago was a goldfish in a bowl, riding in a car--same analogy.

danmpem · #8 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 03:17 PM

If there was an xkcd for Reformed theology, that would be on it!

If you don't know what I just said, then don't worry. And for those who did - you're welcome.

victorbravo · #9 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmpem

If there was an xkcd for Reformed theology, that would be on it!

If you don't know what I just said, then don't worry. And for those who did - you're welcome.

We demand our rights.

Brad · #10 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 06:49 PM

So does this infer some level of freedom while flying around in the car, as though God allows us to decide the color of our socks without predestining such minor matters, but is in control of the larger issues of life?

BobVigneault · #11 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 07:14 PM

1. No, we are decision making agents and we decide without outside compunction but nothing is outside of God's sovereignty.

2. Free will is defined as the ability to choose freely that which we desire most.

3. God can manipulate events and objects into our sphere knowing exactly how we will respond as a result of our nature.

4. Will is free of external compunction but it is always subject to our nature.
Example from a previous post:

Quote:

I usually relate the story of my dogs. I may throw a steak out the back door to the right. My dogs will always go to the right as well. They will never go to the left. Are they free? Yes. Am I forcing them to the right? No. They may go anywhere, but their nature will always compel them to follow the steak. Our depraved nature sees sin as a steak. We are free to choose sin. When we are converted, then we are free not to choose sin.

In sanctification we are removing an old sinful garment that is worthless and putting on a new garment.

5. The nature of the unbeliever is a nature in bondage to sin. Even a seemingly good act comes from a poisoned well.

6. The nature of the believer is free NOT to sin but still free to sin as we learned to struggle against it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

So does this infer some level of freedom while flying around in the car, as though God allows us to decide the color of our socks without predestining such minor matters, but is in control of the larger issues of life?

Brad · #12 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 07:35 PM

All good, Bob. I particularly like this one:

Quote:

3. God can manipulate events and objects into our sphere knowing exactly how we will respond as a result of our nature.

Amen! And does!