The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > The Scriptures > Languages

Languages Discussions regarding languages with primary emphasis upon the Biblical languages.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:42 PM
Whitefield's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, IN
Posts: 1,535
Thanks: 158
Thanked 645 Times in 378 Posts
Lack of the Indicative in John 3:16

πας ὁ πιστευων

John 3:15, 16; 11:26; 12:46; Acts 10:43; Rom 9:33 (without πας); Rom 10:11; 1 John 5:1

The interesting thing for me is that this is not in the indicative, i.e. a subject does the act of believing. Rather the formula is (1) indefinite adjective, (2) definite article, (3) present active participle. My interest focuses on the use of the definite article + the present active participle. A participle is a verbal adjective denoting a quality of something more than telling us how that quality came to be. It is more of an “is” than it is a “does”.

The reason I find this important is that so many read those listed passages as though they emphasized my doing something rather than my being something. If the emphasis was on something I did, wouldn't the verb be in the indicative? If this idea holds, then John 3:16 is not telling me that “if I do the act of believing, then I shall have eternal life”, rather that verse is saying that “if I am one of the believing ones, then I will have eternal life”, without committing itself to how I become “a believing one.” It is interesting to apply this thought to the other verses listed, especially when the tenses used are noted in 1 John 5:1.

Any thoughts on the importance of the use of the participle and the lack of the indicative?
__________________
Lance G. Marshall
Pastor
Georgetown, Indiana
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Whitefield For This Useful Post:
Iakobos_1071 (02-05-2009)
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:55 PM
Iakobos_1071's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 144
Thanks: 44
Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts
Yes you are right, Whosoever was a bad translation, (πας ο) would be "The All" and (πιστευων) "Believing" imparts ownership of the belief to "the "all.. so "The Believing All" would be the ones who have everlasting life and the correct translation.... right?
__________________
Jym Evans Iakobos 1071
Member: Reformation Presbyterian Church
Location: San Marcos, TX
------------
Bill Mencarow's Sermons
Still Water Revival Books

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:58 PM
Whitefield's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, IN
Posts: 1,535
Thanks: 158
Thanked 645 Times in 378 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakobos_1071 View Post
Yes you are right, Whosoever was a bad translation, (πας ο) would be "The All" and (πιστευων) "Believing" imparts ownership of the belief to "the "all.. so "The Believing All" would be the ones who have everlasting life and the correct translation.... right?
Literally it would be "all the believers", "all the believing ones", or "all the ones who are believing", depending on how you like to translate participles.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 08:05 AM
CharlieJ's Avatar
Puritanboard Sophomore
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 797
Thanks: 91
Thanked 498 Times in 256 Posts
To your question, I would say "yes" and "no."

Yes, you are right that the construction does not tell us how a person comes to be in that state.

No, you are wrong to assume that the participle is different from the indicative in this way. It is true that participles can stress quality over action, but you yourself used an indicative (equitive, really) verb to indicate what you assume to be the correct reading of the passage. Both the indicative and the participle would be sufficient to tell us who has eternal life. Neither by itself would tell us anything about causation. There would have to be an ei clause (or something similar) for that. Note that both your wrong and right examples have an if, then clause. The passage does not contain such. The problem is equivocation on the meaning of "if." It can either refer to causality, or to a deductive inference. You used it in your examples as deductive inference, but your question talked about causality.

The participle in this clause actually stresses the necessity of action. What kind of person has eternal life? The one (ho) who is believing (pisteuwn). The pas adds that the subject is not a specific person, but anyone who meets the criteria of the participle.

-----Added 2/6/2009 at 08:05:49 EST-----

Having had some time to reflect, let me make a comment about substantival participles. Their effect is similar to -er, -or words in English. When you say, "I need to see the doctor," you may be thinking of a specific person (i.e. Dr. Steve), or simply someone who acts in a certain capacity.

The Greek substantival participle refers to someone or something particularly in terms of what he/she/it does. A parallel construction to the one found in John 3:16 is in Matthew 7:26:

PAS hO AKOUWN MOU TOUS LOGOUS TOUTOUS

This phrase along with the next participle phrase following the KAI forms the subject of the sentence. The participles define who the subject is in terms of what they do, namely, hearing and not doing.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
Downtown Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, student
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to CharlieJ For This Useful Post:
moral necessity (02-05-2009)
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
67 Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69