A couple of nights ago I was singing Psalm 22 in private worship at home; when I sang the words of verse 2 - "Our fathers trusted in You" - a thought occured to me. It is such a blessing to be able to sing the same songs of praise to the same Lord, that my spiritual forefathers, not only in the Old Testament, but also throughout the history of the New Testament church, have also sang.

Instead of "re-inventing the wheel" and singing some "Jonny-come-lately" hymn that a fallen, fallible man has devised. I have the immense privilege of singing the same hymns that were a source of strength to David, the godly kings and prophets, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, the apostles, the patristic fathers, Reformers, Puritans, Covenanters and many other Christians throughout the ages.

Perhaps the lack of psalm-singing - even if not exclusive - is a factor behind much of the "me and my biblism", and the ecclesiastical freelancer mentality, that blights much of modern evangelicalism.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

I just received four 1650 Psalters in the mail today. My daughter and I are excited about learning these for family worship. I don't think I'll ever think the same way about this subject after reading "Songs Of Zion". A big thank you to brother Andrew for sending me this book. While reading in the 2nd volume of "the christian in complete armour" this morning Gurnall lamented the fact that even in his time the Psalms were being neglected.

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Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
Members of Redeemer Church ARP, Blacksburg Va.
http://www.redeemerblacksburg.org/

Happy thought indeed!! I hadn't looked at it that way before. We are singing corporately with not only the current body of Christ but the body of Christ throughout the ages.

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Traci
Lynnwood OPC
"I have taken all my good deeds, and all my bad deeds, and cast them through each other in a heap before the Lord, and fled from both, and betaken myself to the Lord Jesus Christ, and in him I have sweet peace."--David Dickson

This is another thing that bothered me about our modern day hymnals. Accusations about Watts and Robinson denying the Trinity. Even Andrew Fuller wrote about it in his collection of works I have at home. Have any of you brethren ever heard anything about this with Watts?

Unitarianism

I just started singing the Psalms in my private worship and with my family.

Daniel, i must say that your book has nudged me over the fence and i am pretty much EP now.

My church is not EP, but i will soon be requesting that we start incorporating Psalm singing into our worship. Some adults as well as Youth Group members have said that they would love to start singing Psalms...what a blessing that would be!

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Larry Bray
Elder - Reformed Presbyterian Church of Boothwyn, PCA
Boothwyn, PA - http://www.rpcb.org/
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
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Christian ritual costs nothing and is worth nothing. True Christian religion costs all that we have and is worth everything.

Does anyone know if C&C (or someone else) is going to be reprinting Songs of Zion anytime soon? The used market is WAY too high for my budget on this book....

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Yes, indeed.

It's in the works, but I don't know the timetable. I need to follow up with Mike directly, I think.

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Andrew

I think it may be possible to get a photocopy edition through Still Waters Revival Books, FREE and Discounted Reformation, Puritan, Reformed Baptist, Protestant, Calvinism, Presbyterian, Covenanter, Baptist Books, CDs, DVDs, MP3s, Videos, Bibles. Creation, Seminary, Home Schooling Resources, Psalters at SWRB.co It is listed on their site, in any case for roughly $20

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Rev. Adam King
Minister in the RPCNA
Pastor,Trinity Reformed Church
Wichita, KS

I have. Also, Watts said he had to "teach David to talk like a Christian." Ugh!

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~Jay~
Husband of ENS, father of J II. | Indian Trail, NC
disabled - cancer
Communicant Member, Precentor | Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte, NC | Presbyterian Reformed Church

zzzzzz ...

Try the RPCI's Covenanter Bookshop to see if they have any copies left.

Larry, I am always encouraged when I hear my feeble writings have caused others to think more about what God's word teaches.

That is real communion of the saints indeed. I am reading your book too Mr. Ritchie. I don't need convincing but I alway try to keep read up on the subject as I seek to share with others.

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____________________________

~Beth Ellen Nagle~
Lakeside Church -Wales, WI (PCA)
Married to John
One wonderful daughter, Chaela Joelle


My work in digital art and photography: http://www.puritanboard.com/members/...ms-images.html

Blueridge, you might look at some of the references that Bushell cites regarding Watts in The Songs of Zion. He has the citation where J.A. Alexander states that Watts "was believed to have died a Unitarian." His other citation is from Gilbert McMaster's book about Watts. McMaster cites one of Watts' works "A Discourse on the Glory of Christ," in which Watts indeed laments that the doctrine of the Trinity could ever be believed by large numbers of Christians.

I may start another thread on Unitarianism, as to whether one can hold such a belief and still be considered regenerate. How can one profess to be a believer, and not hold to the diety of Christ?

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Randy Harris
Heritage PCA Church
Oklahoma City, OK

Also try RTS Charlotte. It was over a year ago but they had a bunch of copies at their bookshop. Unfortunately, they were not hot sellers.

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Chris
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte (PRC)
Student, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary
SC

...hope is nothing but the nourishment and strength of faith.
~ Calvin's Institutes III.ii.43

Yes, the same David who was a "man after God's own heart". The Spirit of the Lord was upon David's tongue so that he would teach us to talk and think like Christians, not the other way round.

FWIW, Here is a previous thread on Isaac Watts and his Unitarianism.

Issac Watts - Possibly Unitarian?

I think this is a huge stretch of the imagination, brother.

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Casey, Chicagoland, OPC

Thanks for this thread y'all. I had no idea that people sang Psalms until I moved to Pittsburgh and ran into all the RP's around here. Now they have me going to their Seminary. Who knows what else they will have me do next.

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Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Member Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA

Deo Vindice

For those who hold to the RPW, the burden of proof rests with the pro-hymnody in public worship position.

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Glenn Ferrell
Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Boise, Idaho

http://sovereignredeemer.org

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_de...formationidaho


Nec Tamen Consumebatur


The duty of magistrates...extends to both tables of the law, ... those laws are absurd which disregard the rights of God, and consult only for men. - Calvin, Institutes, IV:20:9

Daniel,

Since I became a Protestant, I have been thinking of that (EP), the frequency of the Lords Supper, Bible Translation (KJV vs. the rest), Our Confessions (3fU and W.C.F), etc. In other words how can the Church being "always reformed," continue to "always reforming" within itself. As our motto is to be understood, "reformed church always reforming."

IMO, I think agreeing in just one will bring the Church closer together.

__________________
Gil Garcia
Rehoboth Reformed Church (RCUS)
La Habra, CA

"Ignorance of this distinction between Law and Gospel is one of the principal sources of the abuses which corrupted and still corrupt Christianity." - Calvin's successor


"By the words of the law man is admonished and taught, not what he can do, but what he ought to do. How is it that you theologians are twice as stupid as schoolboys, in that as soon as you get hold of a single imperative verb you infer an indicative meaning...?"
-Martin Luther, The Bondage of the Will

I agree completely. However, just fyi, even this simple position, grounded in the nature of the RPW itself, is subject to vigorous dispute here on the PB.

http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/ep-burden-proof-19879/

Note that I said even if not exclusive, and that it is a factor, not the only factor.

However, the problem remains for the uninspired hymn-singer: why should I want to sing songs which the saints in earlier ages - even after the close of the canon - did not have at their disposal?

Although I would say that pro-uninspired hymnody in any worship context is inconsistent with the RPW. I find it strange that some people think we should only sing psalms in public worship, but then sing non-canonical hymns in private, family worship etc, but without ever making a Biblical case for that distinction.

Daniel, this is how I understood what you said: "If everyone just adhered to my beliefs (or was a little bit closer to my beliefs), then there would be greater unity in the church." You may not have intended it to sound that way, but that's how it came off to me.
I'm not going to argue with you about it. I think were both quite content in the validity of our present convictions.

Fair enough.

Who knows indeed?

http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/ep-who-s-changed-18799/

FCC&C,

What, you find it strange that some people are inconsistent in thier theology....

Note: I was told what you just said about "some people" by an RPCNA pastor when I was looking for a home Church. He wanted to make it clear to me that we are psalm singers on Sunday morning...so be prepared for that when you visit...but, at home we can play the piano and sing hymns, etc...I thought it was funny because if you are convinced that your Sunday morning service is real worship, why would you not want to repeat that same "real" worship at other times.

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Shawn
Orthodox Presbyterian
Denver, Colorado

Open my eyes Lord, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law. Psalm 119:18

Gil

I am not sure if this addresses your point, but I think the crucial difference between the classic Protestant view of Sola Scriptura, and the common view of most evangelicals Solo Scriptura/"me and my Bible-ism", is that the former seeks to take on board the testimony of the church, and further refine it in accordance with Scripture, while the latter thinks we should just start from scratch - as if we are the only ones who have read the Bible.

Does he deny that the RPW applies to private/family worship?

Either he must, or he has two sets (sort of speak) of standards for RPW, one for what is proper in the church and one for what is proper in private (but the standard should be "what is proper in worship, period")...Either way, it seems rather inconsistent.

Hi:

Michael Bushell is revising and updating, The Songs of Zion. I heard that about a year ago. When the newly revised edition will come out I am not sure.

By the way, wasn't there supposed to be a debate about EP here in the debate forums?

-CH

__________________
In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.

Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO RPCNA
Student at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Pittsburgh PA
Never be afraid to do something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.

That's interesting; as the present edition itself is a revision.

Hopefully it will interact with recent criticisms of EP.

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Richard
CofE
UK

Many thanks to brother and sister Dohms for helping me to learn these beautiful songs. This is a great help:

SermonAudio.com - Fifty Psalm Singing Tunes

BTW, maybe we can talk them into doing another 100 of them!

Do y'all recommend the spilt leaf edition or the "solid" page edition, or does it matter?

I wouldn't know the difference. Maybe one of the good brethren will explain it to us.