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Thread: Exclusive Psalmody Debate (at long last)

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    Exclusive Psalmody Debate (at long last)

    The long promised first debate for the Puritan Board Debate Forum has been set up. Due to prior commitments the agreed up start of the Debate will be sometime between mid December and January 1st. Here are the Details:

    DEBATE: What Should be the Content of Public Worship Song? Debate Question: Is there clear and sufficient warrant given in Scripture for the composition of uninspired writings for use as song in the public worship of the Church?

    For the Affirmative:
    Andrew J. Webb, a minister in the Presbyterian Church in America, currently serving the Providence Presbyterian Church in Fayetteville, North Carolina.

    For the Negative:
    Rev. Matthew Winzer, of the Australian Free Church, currently serving in Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia.

    This will be a formal essay debate. Two moderators representing each point of view on the question, have been chosen to review the essays prior to posting to be sure the debate stays on track and in accordance with the question and rules set for this debate. These are the Rev. Fredrick T. Greco, Senior Pastor of Christ Church PCA, Katy, Texas, and the Rev. Dr. Frank J. Smith, Ph.D., D.D., Pastor of the Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church of Sheboygan, Wisconsin.General Stipulations to which both sides agree:
    Agreement with WCF 21.5; 1.6.
    i.e. The Regulative Principle of Worship:
    i.e. The Confession’s distinction between parts/elements of worship and circumstances.
    i.e. Worship Song as a distinct element of worship.

    General format:
    The affirmative of the question opens the debate. He has up to a month to draft this first essay (each subsequent essay whether an argument or a response to one, or an answer to a question, has two weeks). The opening essay will state the affirmative of the question and will adduce a list of the supporting arguments for the position and proceed with the presentation of the first supporting argument. However many the number of arguments, the debater should go from the least to the most strong of the arguments in his judgment. As this opening essay sets up the structure of the debate, it is the most important, and more time is given to draft it.

    The first post for the Negative will state the negative and argue against the first supporting argument (he has two weeks to reply).

    The Affirmative replies, and the Negative closes the exchange with a reply (again each have up to two weeks).

    There will then be a question "round." The Negative begins. These questions must concern the first argument, are to be pertinent questions without commentary, alternating between debaters with the Affirmative asking the last question. There should be at least two questions, and there will be no more than 12 questions for each “round”. For this particular debate the format will not be open to questions from the audience.

    The debate will continue through enough rounds to cover the number of arguments given in the opening essay with each round getting a question round of 2 to 12 questions.


    Each argument, reply, and each reply to questions will be no more than 2500 words. These are formal essays, so formal style is required; i.e. these are not internet posts. [review the general Debate Forum rules here on this and other points). After the opening essay, each debater has two weeks to draft each essay, whether an argument, a reply or an answer to a question. Before any of these are posted the two moderators of the debate will review each piece to make sure the debate is on track and that they are in keeping with debate stipulations and general Christian deportment. This goes on behind the scenes. If something gets by the moderators and it becomes apparent that it needs addressing, they may issue a ruling, but otherwise they remain strictly behind the scenes.

    Lord willing, this will be an extensive and thorough debate of the question that will become a great resource on a topic so often discussed here on The Puritan Board.

    Prior to commencing the debate there will be a moratorium on discussing the topic of exclusive psalmody until the debate is concluded. Members should also review the general Debate Forum rules in the link above pertaining to board behavior during the debate.
    Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dallas, Texas.
    Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
    Westminster Letter Press
    The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
    The Blue Banner Archive

    The Regulative Principle: The Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference” (Samuel Miller).

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    AV1611 is offline. Puritanboard Senior
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    Looking forward to it!
    Richard
    CofE
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    Sounds great!
    Kevin Rogers, Licentiate
    Ruling Elder
    Sovereign Community Church, PCA
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    Can't wait.
    Traci
    Lynnwood OPC

    "I have taken all my good deeds, and all my bad deeds, and cast them through each other in a heap before the Lord, and fled from both, and betaken myself to the Lord Jesus Christ, and in him I have sweet peace."--David Dickson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augusta View Post
    Can't wait.


    I like the popcorn guy.

    Norseman Moderator

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    Ready for it.
    soli Deo gloria!
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    Yippee!
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    This should be good.
    James Helbert, Wytheville, VA
    Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS

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    I vote for Andy! (Just cuttin' to the chase here...)
    Richard T. Zuelch, M.Div
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    Machaira is offline. Inactive User
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    Great! Maybe I can finally make up my mind on this topic. No pressure though guys . . .
    [B]Jim Polk
    Former/resigned Ruling Elder, Pilgrim Church, PCA
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania[/B]

    [B][I]Jud 1:3 . . .contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.[/I][/B]

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    Looks really cool. Thanks so much for setting this up!
    Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
    Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
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    Sounds like it should be good.

    Go Matt!
    Sean P.M. McDonald
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    Here I was, trying to forget about this so I could the anticipation and you have to remind me that it will be forever before it begins. Sheesh...

    Josh
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    How absurd a tenet is this, which holdeth that there is some particular worship of God allowed, and not commanded? What new light is this which maketh all our divines to have been in the mist, who have acknowledged no worship of God, but that which God hath commanded? Who ever heard of commanded and allowed worship?
    - George Gillespie
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    It looked like there was no place where the negative could present more than a rebuttal or answer to objections in that format. Am I reading the format explanation correctly?
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    This is going to be good.
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    Andy is going to win.
    Ben
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    Oh. You spoiled it; I guess no point having the debate now.
    Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dallas, Texas.
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    The Regulative Principle: The Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference” (Samuel Miller).

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    Looking forward to being educated further on this subject!
    Dan
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    It will be very enlightening.

    Debates are very enlightening but the truth is not always the victor in debates. The winner of the debate just presents their argument better sometimes, even if they are wrong. So even if one is persuaded by a debater, a person should always try to pursue further knowledge on the debated subject.

    Norseman Moderator

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    Quote Originally Posted by PuritanCovenanter View Post
    It will be very enlightening.

    Debates are very enlightening but the truth is not always the victor in debates. The winner of the debate just presents their argument better sometimes, even if they are wrong. So even if one is persuaded by a debater, a person should always try to pursue further knowledge on the debated subject.
    Acts 17:11
    Dan
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    Looking forward to this, may God bless this discourse to edify his people!
    How often have you wondered why Christ should set His heart upon such a one as you! --Octavius Winslow

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    This is going to be gooood!
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    When is the debate on the regulative principle of worship and how far to take it? Singing is only a small part of it!
    Life is a journey; learn to enjoy it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shelly View Post
    When is the debate on the regulative principle of worship and how far to take it? Singing is only a small part of it!
    Good point Shelly. The regulative principle of worship comes first. One must decide which version of the RPW the Scriptures teach. Psalmody acappella comes by way of applying the RPW specifically to the element of song in worship.

    By the way, I have much respect for Andy, but Mr. Winzer will win

    In His grace,
    Pastor Steve Bradley
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    Ok folks. Let's not turn "my" announcement thread into an odds maker's. Settle back and wait for the main event and we can do the analysis and "what I think" afterward.
    Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dallas, Texas.
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    The Regulative Principle: The Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference” (Samuel Miller).

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    Can we have a betting pool?
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    Quote Originally Posted by py3ak View Post
    Can we have a betting pool?
    Perhaps some bodyguards as well?
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    I am going to win.........wait......I am not debating.....ooops...sorry......carry on.
    etexas, , Servant Of Christ, Saint Mary Magdalene.
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    Who'll be the bookie? What are the odds?
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    Anybody know where we're at WRT the debate? Original post said it was to take place sometime between mid-Dec and Jan 1...
    Pastor Steve Bradley
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    Soon, DV. One of the participants had pastoral issues that took precedence (obviously).
    Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dallas, Texas.
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    The Regulative Principle: The Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference” (Samuel Miller).

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    Quote Originally Posted by etexas View Post
    I am going to win.........wait......I am not debating.....ooops...sorry......carry on.
    I was told by a friend that, regardless of the actual participants in the debate, Chuck Norris is going to win.
    Sean P.M. McDonald
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    Any further word on the debate?
    Sean P.M. McDonald
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    "Lex praescribit, evangelium inscribit." (The law prescribes, the gospel inscribes.)
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  34. #34
    Joshua's Avatar
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    It's gonna be a minute.
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    How absurd a tenet is this, which holdeth that there is some particular worship of God allowed, and not commanded? What new light is this which maketh all our divines to have been in the mist, who have acknowledged no worship of God, but that which God hath commanded? Who ever heard of commanded and allowed worship?
    - George Gillespie
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    It will happen when it happens; for now it is back-burnered. I think everyone wants this done right and with the participants' full attentions; so the wait should be worth it I trust.
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    The Regulative Principle: The Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference” (Samuel Miller).

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  36. #36
    Daniel Ritchie is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
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    Is there really any point to having another debate; after all the arguments pro and contra are freely available to all who want them.
    Daniel Ritchie
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  37. #37
    etexas is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
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    Go Pastor Webb!
    etexas, , Servant Of Christ, Saint Mary Magdalene.
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  38. #38
    Daniel Ritchie is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
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    Quote Originally Posted by etexas View Post
    Go Pastor Webb!
    Wrong etexas, you should know that in this debate there can only be one Winzer.
    Daniel Ritchie
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie View Post
    Is there really any point to having another debate; after all the arguments pro and contra are freely available to all who want them.
    There is a very valid point, actually. Within the confines of this formal debate there will be organization.

    1. No shotgun approach.
    2. No strawmen (will be a moderated debate).
    3. It's between two men, not the whole board.

    I think it will be a most helpful debate.
    Josh
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    How absurd a tenet is this, which holdeth that there is some particular worship of God allowed, and not commanded? What new light is this which maketh all our divines to have been in the mist, who have acknowledged no worship of God, but that which God hath commanded? Who ever heard of commanded and allowed worship?
    - George Gillespie
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  40. #40
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    Personally, I think that while we wait for this, we ought to have another debate on infant baptism. There are tons of threads on this, but no formal debate on it.
    Rev. Lane Keister
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