Introducing the Paedo-Baptism Answers forum

[Semper Fidelis]

I've created this sub-forum to be a non-debating area for members to ask questions and receive clarification on the confessional understanding of the Sacrament of Baptism from Paedo-Bapists only.

[Kevin]

Good idea!

[Quickened]

Good call Rich!

[Semper Fidelis]

Heidi Zartman had the idea.

[a mere housewife]

Except that these forums are much less confusing than my idea.



Thanks very much. I'm really looking forward to using this forum. (Though I want to discuss the last answer I got with Ruben and make sure that my mental fog is at a minimum and I'm asking things as clearly as I can.)

[Zenas]

Why'd you have to clarify the purpose to be Baptism related? I was going to ask fellow paedo-baptists what the circumfrence of the sun was and if Big-foot was real.

[BobVigneault]

2,713,406 miles and yes, he lives in the hopes, hearts and minds of oversized shoe manufacturers everywhere. Next question.

[smhbbag]

I've created this sub-forum to be a non-debating area for members to ask questions and receive clarification on the confessional understanding of the Sacrament of Baptism from Paedo-Bapists only.

For both this, and the credo answers forum, will there be multiple paedo/credo perspectives allowed in the answer, so long as there is no direct arguing between the two varying answers?

"Confessional" can have many interpretations. So is a wide swath of possible paedo answers going to be allowed (with no arguing among themselves), or will it be one 'standard' position as offered by the moderation team?

Pros and cons both ways. Maybe the answer is obvious and I haven't seen it.

[DMcFadden]

Almost one year into PB and the search function still drives me nuts. Could one of my Paedo brethren either direct me to the post on the thread where this is discussed or answer these honest questions.

* What do you consider the best (i.e., most helpful or persuasive) two statements (books or articles) of the paedo position?

* How do paedo's respond to Welty and Malone (especially his most recent revised work that came in my mail last week)? (request for bibliographic direction as well as a succinct answer from you all)

Ten months of PB have taught me to trust the amazing argumentative skills, knowledge base, and bibliographic recommendations of my TR brethren. Your assistance would be most appreciated.

[Me Died Blue]

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Could one of my Paedo brethren either direct me to the post on the thread where this is discussed or answer these honest questions.

* What do you consider the best (i.e., most helpful or persuasive) two statements (books or articles) of the paedo position?

At least from what I have seen, this article by Dr. Dennis Johnson strikes one of the best balances between being comprehensive yet to-the-point, and certainly being completely focused on the Scriptures:

Infant Baptism: How My Mind Has Changed

[PuritanCovenanter]

Are we going to have a Credo Baptist Forum?

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by PuritanCovenanter

Are we going to have a Credo Baptist Forum?

There already is, Brother. Introducing the Credo-Baptism Answers forum

[Barnpreacher]

Introducing the Credo-Baptism Answers forum

[a mere housewife]

here is the other sticky: Introducing the Credo-Baptism Answers forum

[a mere housewife]

tic tac toe.

[Me Died Blue]

Originally Posted by a mere housewife

tic tac toe.

Now how many in a row was that again?

[Barnpreacher]

Hey, what can we say? We're here to serve on the PB and not just to be served, right?

[Joshua]

I think EVERYONE on the board should link to it. That would be fun.

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally Posted by smhbbag

For both this, and the credo answers forum, will there be multiple paedo/credo perspectives allowed in the answer, so long as there is no direct arguing between the two varying answers?

The rule is that only a person that confesses the position can answer the question.

I don't want this to degenerate and the only way to ensure this is to rule it this way.

Sometimes the best case for a position is the positive presentation of the case in order to persuade. Heidi was right to note that some back and forth confuse the issue - especially because some arguments lack validity but partisans cannot always see where a refutation lacks substance.

I want these two fora to be a place where each Confessional party, that is passionate about its view, gets to put its best foot forward. They "own" the answers.

"Confessional" can have many interpretations. So is a wide swath of possible paedo answers going to be allowed (with no arguing among themselves), or will it be one 'standard' position as offered by the moderation team?

Pros and cons both ways. Maybe the answer is obvious and I haven't seen it.

I'll leave it to how folks decide to answer. I don't have a problem with people presenting a case by pointing out that "...an objector might say..." and presenting counter-examples. What I don't want here, for instance, would be people arguing for an FV view of paedo-baptism. For that matter, I would not permit a Free-Will Baptist or Disciples of Christ view of Baptism in the Credo- forum (though I wouldn't expect that).

Hope this clarifies.

[Christusregnat]

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

2,713,406 miles and yes, he lives in the hopes, hearts and minds of oversized shoe manufacturers everywhere. Next question.

[ChristopherPaul]

I can see it now... a thread will be started in one forum and a refutation to that thread will be started in the other.

Although I expect such as I described above, I think this is a great idea to foster learning.

[DMcFadden]

Ahem, excuse me, anybody home? In addition to rejoicing in the virtues of one of these threads, does anyone else have an answer to my question? That nice young Chris Blum helped this old man find Dennis Johnson's article. Could another one of my Paedo brethren either direct me to the post on the thread where infant baptism is discussed or answer these honest questions.

* What do you consider the best (i.e., most helpful or persuasive) two statements (books or articles) of the paedo position?

* How do paedo's respond to Welty and Malone (especially his most recent revised work that came in my mail last week)? (request for bibliographic direction as well as a succinct answer from you all)

Thank you, thank you very much. OK folks, get back to work. Nothing to see here.

[greenbaggins]

Dennis, I can't help you with the latter question, as I don't have Welty and Malone (where are they to be found?). However, I can help you with the first question. Without a doubt, the best defense of paedo-baptism is Pierre Marcel's book "The Biblical Doctrine of Infant Baptism." Dealing with Paul K. Jewett's book very well (and seemingly every other issue, as well) is the Strawbridge edited volume, The Case for Covenantal Infant Baptism. I highly recommend both resources. There are others as well, such as John Murray's book Christian Baptism, and the five volume series by Dale on the word baptizo, mentioned in other posts, but which you seem unwilling to purchase because of time constraints.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Ahem, excuse me, anybody home? In addition to rejoicing in the virtues of one of these threads, does anyone else have an answer to my question? That nice young Chris Blum helped this old man find Dennis Johnson's article. Could another one of my Paedo brethren either direct me to the post on the thread where infant baptism is discussed or answer these honest questions.

Thank you, thank you very much. OK folks, get back to work. Nothing to see here.

Dennis, I've read several different things, but no one of them stands over the other, IMHO. I've read John Murray's Christian Baptism, O. Palmer Robertson's Christ of the Covenants, a few of C. Matthew McMahon's articles from Welcome to A Puritan's Mind!, and some decent lectures by Lig Duncan from First Pres Jackson's website. One thing that was really helpful was a lecture series by Pastor William Shishko of Franklin Square OPC. Those sermons can be found here: SermonAudio.com - Orthodox Presbyterian Church Franklin Sq

I want to read the book above mentioned by Rev. Keister, and I also want to delve into Witsius' Economy of the Covenants.

As for Welty, didn't Rich blog on him some time back?

[Me Died Blue]

Here is a thread from '06 where several people on the board, including Matthew (Winzer), Philip A, Rich and Bruce, responded to a paper of Welty's, which was originally a response to some of Calvin's argumentation for paedobaptism.

[DMcFadden]

Originally Posted by greenbaggins

Dennis, I can't help you with the latter question, as I don't have Welty and Malone (where are they to be found?). However, I can help you with the first question. Without a doubt, the best defense of paedo-baptism is Pierre Marcel's book "The Biblical Doctrine of Infant Baptism." Dealing with Paul K. Jewett's book very well (and seemingly every other issue, as well) is the Strawbridge edited volume, The Case for Covenantal Infant Baptism. I highly recommend both resources. There are others as well, such as John Murray's book Christian Baptism, and the five volume series by Dale on the word baptizo, mentioned in other posts, but which you seem unwilling to purchase because of time constraints.

Thanks, Lane, I knew that they had been discussed but could not navigate the serch function as effectively as I would have liked to do. I ordered Strawbridge and Marcel at your recommendation and downloaded Johnson at Chris' suggestion too. You're correct, five volumes on baptism is more than I can manage just now.

[Jerusalem Blade]

Rich,

Thanks -- I think these two forums are a great idea.

Uninterrupted presentations may then be given, with possible corrections (iron sharpening iron) from like-minded believers.