I was wondering are Calvinist required to hold to a high view of the sacraments? Because right now I really don't maybe it was my coming out of RCC but I view the Lord's Supper as a memorial and Baptism as a thing to do out of obedience.

Does that mean I get kicked out of the reformed club?

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Doug
Baptist
Hemet, Ca
Old Time Radio Podcast

It depends what you mean by "Calvinist." If you mean "confessionally Reformed," then your best bet is to look at the confessions of the Reformed churches. For instance, you could look at articles 34 and 35 of the Belgic Confession. The Belgic Confession presents a Calvinist (Reformed) view of the sacraments. But it probably wouldn't sit too well with a lot of people who are calling themselves Reformed these days.

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Wes Bredenhof
Pastor, Providence Canadian Reformed Church
Hamilton, Ontario
www.bredenhof.ca
Gospel Talk Radio Program

I do think that this does mean that you are outside the historical reformed faith, as long as you are convicted of your views then I do not seee why this is a problem, there is one Church incorporating the Reformed and a whole host of other groups such as Calvinistic Baptists and that is all that matters.

The term Reformed has a historical meaning and that meaning requires a high view of the sacaraments, to hold otherwise is to rob the term Reformed of its meaning. Being Reformed is so much more than simply being Calvinistic but we should first strive to be Christians above seeking systematic labels.

Your post makes the mistake of conflating being Calvinistic with being Reformed, one is narrower than the other.

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Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

Your question is kind of odd. What would being a Roman Catholic have to do with what the Scriptures teach about the Sacraments?

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Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

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Because they have a high view of sacraments. Some things I see in Calvinism remind me a whole bunch of Catholicism I reckon I have an aversion of holding anything to highly.

I think that's to be expected. The Reformation wasn't about throwing everything out from the church of the Middle Ages. There were some things that Rome got right and the Reformers held on to those elements (i.e. the doctrine of the Trinity, early creeds). With regards to the sacraments, with some further reading you'll find that while there may be some superficial similarities (baptism of infants, for instance), the theology is quite different.

Maybe I am Calvinistic than, I agree with TULIP and all.

I love the Sacraments! By partaking of the Lord's Supper, you are partaking of Him spiritually. It's more than just a memorial to Him. It is one of the tools of grace. Baptism signifies and is a seal of our being one with Christ and being under the covenant. You should do a in-depth study on it to learn about these Sacraments instead of just chucking them up as something you can do or leave. The Sacraments are a tool of grace which helps us grow in Christ.

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

Well, the reason why things remind you of catholicism is because the Church was catholic for 1500 years.

It's been noted that Roman Catholics and Protestants actually agree on more than 90% of doctrines but it's the 10% that really divides.

The mistake too many make is to make truth the exact opposite of the thing they came out of. Sometimes some of the errors are profoundly out of phase. Sometimes people make the mistake in seeing external similarities that the meanings poured into them are the same.

Thus if I say I believe in "...one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church" it doesn't make me Roman Catholic but if you grew up with that and think that Christianity is exactly the opposite of everything you did as a Roman Catholic then you're going to have some major doctrinal problems.

- The reading of the OT, NT and Gospel Scriptures in an RCC Church is orthodox
- The responsive Psalm is orthodox (and, ironically, a capella in many places)
- The entirety of the Nicene Creed is orthodox
- The fact that a homily occurs is orthodox

Sure, there are things completely out of whack and idolatrous but, again, what does that have to do with what the Scriptures teach on the Sacraments. I assume you didn't abandon your belief in the Trinity when you left the RCC. While you certainly needed to reform your understanding of the Sacraments, why would the only viable option be a bare sign when you don't come to the conclusion that God is not Triune?

Incidentally, while Baptism in the 1689 LBCF is a bare sign, the Lord's Supper retains Sacramental language about feeding on Christ - but spiritually and not carnally.

They are also marvelously monergistic, it is all of the Lord and mirrors salvation.

Guess I need a lot of work Sometimes seeing all theses high views makes me wonder why I left the RCC. I know it's wroong, yet nowI find it's right. I never believe in the trinty because of Catholicism, I believed it before I converted.

Sometimes I wish none of this ever happened to me, I wish I was just happy in my old A/G Church where my parents went. Not me though I had to wonder, to investigate and now I feel more miserable than I use to.

I am sorry I wasted all your time with this forgive me. I'll never know what I am I guess beyond a Christian.

Doug,

You are not wasting anyone's time. Asking questions is what this forum is for. You are new to the reformed faith so there is a lot to learn. So sit back and relax. Soon it will all make sense.

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~Wayne Wylie~
Member, Mid Cities Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Ruling Elder
http://www.mcopc.org
Bedford, TX

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

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William Ames said that the theology is "the doctrine of living unto God", the whole point of theology is to learn more of God and for our wonder at his grace to grow. Every single member of this board has much to learn and such growing is in one sense the whole point of our existance. Jonathan Edwards believed that in heaven such growth in knowledge will continue for all eterenity.

When the early Christian martyrs were slaughtered in the Colloseum they were members of our Church, when the Nicene Creed was formulated it was done so by our Church, when the numberless monks lived and died anonymously spending their lives in prayer and adoration during the middle ages they were members of our Church. The bride of Christ never disappeared, the world cannot prevail against it. When the Church strayed from the gospel God eventually took pity and in the Reformation the Church was revitalised and purified. We are the same Church as the early medieval Church just as the Church is the same Israel that God led out of Egypt

Truth matters, many died for denying the false doctrine of transubstantiation, giving much glory to God in the process, your desire for the truth will make life hard but it is a God honouring desire. All Reformed folk should strive just to be Christians and nothing more, as should all Baptists, all Calvinists and all Lutherans.

You weren't wasting my time Doug. I was asking questions to get you to think about these things. God's at work in us but we still work out our salvation with fear and trembling and it takes some effort to understand these things. I'm happy to continue to answer questions but I was just trying to get you to see that our views need to be informed by something rather than being merely a negative reaction to something else.

Also, while ignorance may seem like bliss, it is not what God calls us to. He calls us to maturity and its hard but we also know that the yoke of Christ is easy compared to the weight of sin.

keith mathison's book on Given for You is superb.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College