I am victim of this myself...

What exactly about Calvinism makes it give the newly-converted such an urge to debate it and argue it all the time? I am passed those days, thank goodness, but I was bad about it myself...

It seems to me that, generally, people who are Calvinists are more prone to debate and argue things anyway--they tend to be more of the "cerebral" kind of people who perhaps are more intellectual or cranial anyway (not to say that non-Calvinists are not, just making an observation).

Is this about right? Think there's anything to it?

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Steven Nemes
Phoenix, AZ

Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy must be answered - C.S. Lewis

"Contending" for the truth of God as revealed through His Word, all of it, is an honorable thing. Yes, it will provoke disagreement, misunderstanding, conviction, and many things. God has promised His Word will not return to Him void. (cf Isaiah 55:11).

God uses it to illuminate the understanding of others as well as yourself and builds faith. Yes, you can do it with wrong attitudes (God may still use it), but don't be afraid of making God's Word a center of your life (including what you discuss with others).

May I humbly suggest you will start contending for the truth of God's Word with some pentecostal brothers and sisters, regarding:

1) Arminian influenced theology,
2) dispensationalism,
3) a confession of faith,
4) spiritual view of the Lord's Supper

... and there's lots more error before you even get to the revelation of God through Scripture. Actually, you're are just getting started- and you will grow, and be used by God!

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Scott
PCA
North Carolina


"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)"
Hebrews 10:23

I have also been thinking over some kind of "cross-denominational mission work", saving Pentecostals and other misled brothers from their ways, whether such a thing is possible, necessary, etc...

However that's not the point of my post

When I first was brought to believe the doctines of God's complete sovereignty over all things, I did engage in pretty heated debate with those who did not, because I was very upset about the false teaching I had been deceived with for so long. I wanted to repudiate it at every opportunity that came along. I did not consider arminians, semi-, and full- pelagians to be Christians, because I did not think I was a Christian in all those years before. I did strange things like speak in tongues, thought frequently that I had lost 'my' salvation, and at other times thought that I was 'right with God' because of my outward behavior. My arrogance and unbelief of those days was like smoke in my eyes, and I hated the theologies that had spawned them.

Now as I've grown older, I've been encouraged to consider arminians and semi-pelagians brothers by men for whom I have great respect. While I can't say I'm fully convinced, I have mellowed. That may be due to the fact that I realized that even my days walking in that darkness were in the meticulous will of God, and thus for a good purpose, so it may be the same for those in them now. And that refuting the same tired assertions over and over again just began to seem pointless.

Which may explain why I prefer to spend my online time in a place like PB, where I won't have to encounter non-calvinists. They just wear me out.

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Brad
Member- Eagle Heights PCA
Winchester, VA

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I agree much with Brad above. When I first was convinced of Calvinism I had a strange mix of emotions. I had zeal for truth and a desire for others to know it and love it as I had. Also anger at being robbed of these precious truths which have long sustained the Church, anger that most evangelicals are being led astray from free grace, and don't even know or care about it. But there was also pride in knowing the Scriptures better than others. Pride is always a danger, but especially when you are 20, full of energy, puffed up with knowledge, and lacking wisdom and compassion. Too often we forget what it was like to be lost in error and sin, and how hard it was to bring us to faith. When we forget that, we can get arrogant rather than compassionate, and forget that we have what we have by grace alone.

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Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

Cage Stage is the official disagnosis. Coined by one of our PBers here.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Yessir.

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Rae W. | Elder @ Grace Central Presbyterian Church | Columbus, OH
Online presence: blog | twitter | facebook

I think the tendency among Calvinists - especially amongst new Calvinists - can also be chalked up to a classic case of "small man syndrome."

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Ben
Chaplain, US Army
Ft. Riley, KS
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

I think it's interesting-I wonder why do Calvinists go through this? I suspect it is because it is cranial, cerebral people who are more likely to be Calvinists anyway, and I suppose they would have a tendency to dispute things and debate over intellectual matters, anyway.

One way you can look at this, now that you are reformed and being tested a little for it is that God placed you among those people and that communion for a reason. You have access others do not.

There are certainly Christians among that grouping. You share the most important thing with them, the Lord has chosen to redeem you. God has done this.

You also share some doctrines in common (e.g. doctrine of the Trinity [except not even that with the 'Holiness' grouping]).

But that's not everything. God commands us to worship Him in spirit and in truth. His word is at the center of our lives, and it will naturally be applied and discussed as you meet people who are in doctrinal error. There is a good amount of error in "pentecostal" circles, and they often have no idea what God's Word teaches, systematically.

So, I would encourage you look at this as a gift from God- you can engage them. Things like the doctrines of grace ("five points"), covenant theology, and a spiritual view of the sacraments are central to the way God has revealed Himself in Scripture. It is not acceptable to just "believe what you want, as long as you believe in Jesus." We must worship Him according to the way He has prescribed (prescribed), so use your contacts with these errant Pentecostal brethren to engage them, for His Honor and His Glory!

Don't worry about the "psychology" of argumentation, just ask God for faith, be obedient to share what you know from God's Word, let the engagement sharpen you biblically, you'll go back to Scripture and learn more, and God will use and bless you.

I suppose I should consider Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." The fact that I go to a church where there is a great number of people who disagree with me is really sort of a blessing--it is an opportunity for stimulating dialog, for conversation, an opportunity to search for the truth.

Thanks!