Moderators: please delete this post if the question is stupid or offensive

I'm not newly Calvinistic but this is a (possibly stupid) newly-Reformed question. For the past nearly-15 years, my husband and I have lived in Ethiopia where we attended English-language church maybe once or twice a year (after our first 5 months there). Now we have been in the States since September. For the first 4 months we went to an evangelical mega-church with horrid music but good teaching. Then (thanks to PB) we found an OP church with good music and good teaching. We have been going there since January.

In spite of agreement on the essence of the faith (the substitutionary atonement) the whole picture of the Christian life is entirely different in the two places. In the evangelical church it is this warm-fuzzy, lovey-dovey relationship to Jesus as my friend stuff. Repentance and forgiveness is a one-time, way-back-when deal and largely irrelevant for this week. Never once did we hear any corporate confession of sin, not even at communion services. Before communion one just has to make sure he/she has asked Jesus into his/her life--and if not, do it quick before you partake.

In the OP church there is a great emphasis on the law of God, our sinful natures, and the continual need for forgiveness. Somehow Christianity seems much more serious, our condition as sinful creatures before a holy God not quite as joyful. All the "rah-rah" is missing. I find the place refreshing.

What I'm wondering is this: where are the charismatic-reformed in all of this? I've never attended a charsmatic-reformed church and wonder what kind of services they have. Sermon tapes wouldn't help--it's the part of the service before the sermon to which I refer. Is the emphasis on sin/forgiveness or on praise/relationship or is there some of each?

Second part of the question: can anyone give scriptural grounds for one or the other approach being "right?" In the OT, no one came anywhere near approaching God without sacrifice so it seems that the OP is right. On the other hand, since our redemption is accomplished, one can argue that we needn't go back to that every time we approach God. NT worship needn't reflect the OT pattern.

__________________
Mary Vanderkooi
Kale Heywott Church (KHC)
Soddo, Ethiopia

By 'OP' do you mean 'Orthodox Presbyterian'?

__________________


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Yes, Orthodox Presbyterian.

Leslie:

I attend a Sovereign Grace church pretty regularly, and there is a happy median between the two. There is a LONG time of worship through song, a corporate confession of sins, and the pastor is relentless(aside from his preaching, which is authoritive and godly) in his reminding his congregation of our sinful natures, our need for a relationship with our Saviour, and our response to the love of Christ with a life of holiness.

In fact, both SGC's I visit are exactly the same.

__________________
Ian Kemmerer
Trinity Bible Fellowship, Blandon, PA
Fleetwood, PA

"Be still, my soul: when dearest friends depart, And all is darkened in the vale of tears, Then shalt thou better know His love, His heart, Who comes to soothe thy sorrow and thy fears. Be still, my soul: thy Jesus can repay From His own fullness all He takes away."

"Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee."

Leslie,
This may sound too technical, but I would argue that if we are going to define "reformed" according to a "theological maximum" definition (which is where the name came from) then it belongs to churches in a specific theological tradition--specifically Continental Reformed churches and the Puritan/Presbyterian churches of the British Isles in the 16th and 17th centuries.

It is important to call things what they are. People who are "predestinarian" are not necessarily "reformed" according to the definition, if the documents that originally defined those churches are taken seriously. Although, anyone who is actually Reformed is most certainly predestinarian. There is a Reformed/Presbyterian approach to Scripture, approach to the Sacraments, etc.

Churches such as the OPC you attend are the heirs of a nearly 500 year old theological heritage, whose doctrine is found articulated in carefully worded theological statements that are almost that old themselves.

Specific doctrine creates a certain piety and practice; and there is a reciprocal impact. RCC worship looks like it does because of RCC doctrine. Protestant worship was shaped differently because its theology differed from Rome's on vital points. Charismatic worship is a product of its prior theological commitments as well. It is simply inevitable.

So, I would say that a "charismatic-reformed" church, insofar as it puts together elements of Reformed and non-Reformed elements (but usually not having more than a theological "minimum statement of faith/principles") is a hybrid.

The way to approach God is through his Mediator. Yes, we still come to God by sacrifice--the finished sacrifice of Christ. Our worship is participation in the present, ongoing aspects of him having entered into the Holy of Holies in the heavenly reality as priest, bearing his own blood for the mercy-seat.

Yes, the cross is history, but the meaning of it is moment-by-moment; the cross ought not diminish in our estimation the farther each one of us is removed from "the hour I first believed." Heb.7:25, "He ever lives to make intercession for us."

I hope you stick it out at the OP church you are attending. You may find that a day comes when you realize you have experienced such emotion in worship that no "praise-and-worship" ever had the power to accomplish. Nevertheless, I hope you find contentment in Christ above all form.

__________________
Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI


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