Apostacy & Calvinism

LeeJUk · #1 (**permalink**) 02-27-2009, 06:44 AM

Ok I'm having trouble reconciling the idea that it is possilbe upon hearing the gospel for men to be given some light and conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit and then upon even having that to still reject it.

For example the people who upon hearing the gospel and having the Holy Spirit witness to them and you know they start to come around but either during that process reject the gospel after some light has been given to them of it from God the Holy Spirit or a few days/weeks/months later even though the Holy Spirit witnessed to them and they had some work of the spirit happening to them upon hearing the gospel that they rejected Christ.

Why would the Holy Spirit lets say to some people in the room save them completely and to a few more, give some light to them and witness to them and convict them of sin only later for them to reject the Holy Spirit? Does this mean that all that time whilst the Holy Spirit was at work, these people had a free will choice to choose christ or reject him or that they were not elect and that this work of the Holy Spirit was only really meant to send the sinner further into condemnation after they rejected that work?

For example I heard a story from a free presbyertian preacher on sermonaudio.com, he was talking about a woman who came to the gospel meeting at his church and sat under the preaching of the gospel and had deep conviction of sin and was weeping and sorely troubled. She came back the next night of the gospel meeting and she wasn't troubled, the preacher said "you were weeping over your sin last night but now you seem fine, did you come to the saviour?", she said "no, i got down on my knees when I went home and told God to leave me alone and my burden went away".

So did she have a free will choice to choose or reject or was the conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit and the offer of the gospel just really for no purpose because God predestined her to descruction anyway? to which I woud raise the question why would the Holy Spirit even bother witnessing to her heart about her sin and showing her Christ the saviour during the preaching in the first place?

Thanks.

***Contra_Mundum*** · #2 (**permalink**) 02-27-2009, 09:41 AM

It is the difference between effectual calling; and simply calling, so as to leave a person without excuse.

In his own time and choosing, the Holy Spirit will do his work of saving of God's elect, known before time, and even the hour of this work upon them.

But take the illustration of the woman from your post. She was plainly called by the Spirit in his general operation, but he just as clearly wasn't then calling effectually to her, perhaps not ever (we don't know what else could have happened to her later). But she has no excuse for rejecting God's overture, since a simple appeal to her "nature" is no excuse God will accept. She really heard the call, she understood its demands, and she didn't want to bow.

There is a "natural" resistance, a free-will inclination to reject God. So, from the standpoint of the woman she was in fact exercising her "free-will" to resist and reject the call. She was acting according to her nature, while at the same time acting according to God's sovereign decree (or script) for her life.

The Spirit was calling her against her will, as he calls to everyone against his will. But for his elect, he eventually overcomes that resistance, he gives them new choice, new ability, and the eyes to see that salvation is a necessary good. And so his elect freely choose for their good, a good they were formerly resistant to, but have now been enlightened to desire.

The desire is inevitable, just as physical sight is inevitable to the person with a working eye, and light that streams in it. All this is what we call the Irresistible Grace of the Spirit--overcoming our twisted wills, giving new life, giving sight to the blind, shining the light of God's Word, and having his inevitable result: a changed man, who is very happy with being changed, thank you.

LeeJUk · #3 (**permalink**) 02-27-2009, 11:21 AM

thanks a lot for clearing that up

Scott1 · #4 (**permalink**) 02-27-2009, 02:37 PM

You may also find helpful, "What is Reformed Theology"? by Dr RC Sproul in explaining something of these profound truths.

In order for a sinner (all people) to be saved, God must first do a miracle. That is the starting point.

The miracle is that God actually changes the constituent nature of a human being. This immediately results in faith, a true faith that is born out over time.

Apparent "faithful" response that is really rooted only in the mind, will or emotions of a person will eventually bear out that that is its only source.

The parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3-8) is one place to study this.

The Westminster Confession of Faith, with its phrase by phrase scripture proof texts, will also be helpful in understanding this, especially:

Chapter IX Of Free Will
Chapter X Of Effectual Calling

Poimen · #5 (**permalink**) 02-27-2009, 02:45 PM

You might want to think about Acts 6:10 in light of Acts 7:51. It is clear that the Spirit has come to witness to even the reprobate in order to harden them in their sins that they might be justly judged (cf. Hebrews 6:4-8). Others, we hope and pray, will, in due time be softened by this witness.

Calvin has this to say about the subject:

Quote:

For though only those predestined to salvation receive the light of faith and truly feel the power of the gospel, yet experience shows that the reprobate are sometimes affected by almost the same feeling as the elect, so that even in their own judgment they do not in any way differ from the elect [cf. Acts 13:48]. Therefore it is not at all absurd that the apostle should attribute to them a taste of the heavenly gifts [Hebrews 6:4-6] — and Christ, faith for a time [Luke 8:13]; not because they firmly grasp the force of spiritual grace and the sure light of faith, but because the Lord, to render them more convicted and inexcusable, steals into their minds to the extent that his goodness may be tasted without the Spirit of adoption… But this does not at all hinder that lower working of the Spirit from taking its course even in the reprobate. In the meantime, believers are taught to examine themselves carefully and humbly, lest the confidence of the flesh creep in and replace assurance of faith. Besides this, the reprobate never receive anything but a confused awareness of grace, so that they grasp a shadow rather than the firm body of it. For the Spirit, strictly speaking, seals forgiveness of sins in the elect alone, so that they apply it by special faith to their own use. Yet the reprobate are justly said to believe that God is merciful toward them, for they receive the gift of reconciliation, although confusedly and not distinctly enough. Not that they are partakers of the same faith or regeneration with the children of God, but because they seem, under a cloak of hypocrisy, to have a beginning of faith in common with the latter. And I do not deny that God illumines their minds enough for them to recognize his grace; but he so distinguishes that awareness from the exclusive testimony he gives to his elect that they do not attain the full effect and fruition thereof. He does not show himself merciful to them, to the extent of truly snatching them from death and receiving them into his keeping, but only manifests to them his mercy for the time being. Only his elect does he account worthy of receiving the living root of faith so that they may endure to the end [Matthew 24:13]. Thus is that objection answered: if God truly shows his grace, this fact is forever established. For nothing prevents God from illumining some with a momentary awareness of his grace, which afterward vanishes.”

(Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 2.11)