I am intrigued by Jonathan's treatment of those concerned about their salvation. There is NOTHING like the practise of leading someone to Christ that we have now.

Rather (by today's standards) people are pretty much left to their own devices. This struck me especially struck me in the case of the child who was directed to pray and seek God that He might grant salvation.

Is this hyper-calvanism? Am I misunderstanding the Puritan perspective? I have a feeling that the modern day practice of "the sinners prayer" has influenced me more that I thought. Is Jonathan directing individuals to God since it is He they have to deal with? Have we (I mean me) totally misunderstood the role of the minister? Am I envisioning salvation like a car purchase - with the garage there as "agents" signing people up? Looked at from this perspective are we in danger of substituting the priest of Catholicism with the evangelist. The priest has vatican authority to hear confession and give absolution (as I understand it), the evangelist has/assumes authority to pronounce those praying the sinners prayer as "saved".

Keith Green I believe referred to this "giving of assurance" as spiritual abortion.

Is this the reasoning behind Jonathan remaining aloof and allowing the indiovidual personaly to meet with their God?

__________________
Eoghan
member,Thurso Baptist Church
Scotland

specialist subject: Creationist Genetics (Bottleneck effect of the Ark)
interests: holiness (practical theology)
member of Biblical Creation Society (available as a guest speaker in the far north of Scotland)

Is what, specifically, hyper-Calvinism? I couldn't understand to what you were referring with that question?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
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It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

I am struggling to see why Jonathan does not step in and give more direct counselling? Also there is the suggestion that somebody seeking salvation might be turned away.

Please don't read this in isolation though. I am thinking of the need to deal directly with God as the underlying premise.

I highly recommend the following book - A Pastor's Sketches, by Ichabod Spencer - it's a fantastic collection of anecdotes of a pastor dealing with, as the subtitle calls them, anxious souls.

Two things this book shows very clearly. 1) Evangelism isnt' a "close the sale" proposition. You don't rush people to salvation... it doesn't happen that way. 2) Through the regular preaching and visitation ministry of the local church, people who are outside Christ generally need to be of the understanding that their situation to be very grave indeed before they really are able to see Christ and embrace him in faith. You just don't give people the "your life will be better with Christ" message that sounds no more spiritual than the "try it with Coke" advertisement of the 60's, or my favorite slogan analogy, "Coke adds life" from my childhood.





Such syruppy-sweet presentations of Christ (again, by analogy) fall flatter than Coke that's been left out for a week.

__________________
Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



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That is pretty much the way I was heading Todd. It just comes as a shock to someone in the 21st century to realise how protracted the new birth can/should be.