OK, fellow Baptists: are you a divine right Baptist - meaning that you believe that Baptist is the only system of church government taught in the Scriptures, or are you a best system Baptist - meaning that you believe that Baptist is just the "best system" of church government (of several) taught in the Bible?

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Bob Howes
Framingham, MA

A reoccurring thought:

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

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Michael Daniels
Reformed, RPCNA
Denton, Maryland

[i][b]As For Me And My House, We Will Serve The Lord[/i][/b]

[SIZE="1"][I][FONT="Century Gothic"]Unum Deum in Trinitate: Pater, Filius, et Spiritus Sanctus [RIGHT]Sola scriptura - Sola gratia - Sola fide - Solus Christus - Soli Deo gloria - Solum psalterium - Lex talionis[/RIGHT][/FONT][/I][/SIZE]

Was I THAT obvious?

Ever so slightly.

I'm not so sure Baptist is a polity. Elder rule is a polity and that is what I subscribe to.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Hey! Why don't we just ask, "Who's better, Baptists or Presbyterians?"

Baptists (and I really mean Reformed Baptist) are associational, not denominational. But they do have polity just like the Presbyterians. See here for some historical documentation on Baptist polity.

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~Pastor Chris Powell~
Covenant Baptist Church, Toronto
www.covenantbaptistchurch.com

Congregational Plural Elder Rule here.

This was a great four views book.

Amazon.com: Who Runs the Church?: 4 Views on...

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R. Martin Snyder

1689erPuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)PuritanCovenanter's MySpace Page
"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

So who is going to start a thread for the poor neglected paedobaptist Congregationalists? Alas and avast. . . .

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R.Vic Bottomly
Providence Reformed Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Every Baptist church I know of that has elders is actually not ruled by the elders, but rather "led" by the elders and ruled by the congregation (which is still an improvement over the usual single pastor/staff-deacons-congregation model we see in most Baptist churches).

How is elder rule compatible with the Baptist distinctive of congregational government?

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Rae W. | Elder @ Grace Central Presbyterian Church | Columbus, OH
not another blog, v2.0

What about calvinistic credobaptists who want Presbyterian polity? That's me.

MHO, the Presbyterian polity, with a small amount of latitude, is the only polity permissible in the scriptures.

Can I vote in the Presbyterian poll?

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Jeremy Gage
First Baptist Church
Durham, NC

"No heart can conceive that treasury of mercies which lies in this one privilege, in having liberty and ability to approach unto God at all times, according to his mind and will." - John Owen

I thought it was particularly good in allowing the contributors more interaction with each other (with the surrejoinders) than those books normally do.

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Chris Poe--Attending Grace Community Baptist Church, Mandeville, LA

"There never was a man in the world without a creed. What is a creed? A creed is what you believe. What is a confession? It is a declaration of what you believe. That declaration may be oral or it may be committed to writing, but the creed is there either expressed or implied."—B.H. Carroll

I voted, we Presbyterians will not be ignored.

(See other thread for precedence )

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Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA

Anyone with El Rushbo as an avatar is in no danger of being ignored!

Baptist polity (I have actually lectured on it in seminary several times as a guest lecturer) is a funny animal. In the ordinances, er . . . ah . . . "sacraments" for you presby folks, baptists spend so much time explaining that it REALLY does NOT mean this, that, or the other thing, that by the time we are done we end up with a doctrine of the "real absence." In our governance, we may be firmly committed to doing what we do, but for reasons that are somewhat epistemically lame. Most baptists, for example, will admit that one can "legitimately" adduce biblical precedent and precept to "support" any of at least three forms of polity.

It you examine the broader historical matrix in which a particular polity became popular, it is not surprising that episcopacy tends to seem obvious to people who live under monarchy, presbyterian government seems clear and compelling to those exposed to a parliamentary system, and congregational polity only surfaces when there are lots of people making "democratic" noises. Perhaps unlike some of my sisters and brothers with other forms, baptists are often willing to allow the role of holy expedience and sanctified pragmaticism in the development of the baptist approach to church government.

Still, nobody is more stubborn than a baptist. So, biblically, there is ONLY one way to do it . . . OUR way (even if we admit that expedience has as much to do with why we do it this way as anything).

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I think that such an avatar might make it a lot easier for one to be ignored, to be honest.

The church I pastor (teaching elder might be more applicable) would be an exception. This church recently went from the typical pastor/deacon/congregation Baptist Structure to elder rule.
Is this compatible with the Baptist distinctive of congregationalism? I don't know. On the one hand, the congregation still votes to affirm some decisions, including the appointment of a new elder, although that vote of affirmation is not binding. The elders still have the final authority to make the decisions. On the other hand, I think we are more concerned with being compatible with Scripture than being compatible with Baptist distinctives.

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Mike Shingler
Pastor: Steep Hollow Baptist Church (SBC)
Bryan, TX

Do you have the audio of any of those lectures in Mp3 format so that you could share them with us, Dennis?

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Rae, I can only speak for my church. The elders make all decisions that are theological in nature. The pastor and elder positions are voted on by the congregation. Issues that have to do with budget, or admitting or terminating membership are voted on my the membership. Our elders are very